VW 502/505 vs. 504/507

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harrydog

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Forgive me if this has already been discussed to any great degree - I couldn't find much on it.
In looking at the Lubrizol relative performance comparison tool, the VW 504/507 specification is equal to or better than the 502/505 specification in every area. It exceeds 502/505 in wear, sludge and piston deposits as well as fuel economy and after treatment compatibility.
I was under the impression that the 504/507 spec was a low SAPS specification. All of the 504/507 oils seem to be 30 weights as opposed to mostly 40 weights in the 502/505 category so I guess fuel economy may also be a goal.
If the Lubrizol tool is to be believed, a 504/507 approved oil would be a better choice for most if not all engines, unless a long drain interval is desired?
Which VW vehicles specify 504/507? The EA888 turbo engine specifies 502/505. Why not 504/507? Why would the EA888 2.0 turbo specify 502/505 when 504/507 offers better wear, sludge and piston deposits?
Please educate me on this.
 
Originally Posted By: harrydog
Forgive me if this has already been discussed to any great degree - I couldn't find much on it.
In looking at the Lubrizol relative performance comparison tool, the VW 504/507 specification is equal to or better than the 502/505 specification in every area. It exceeds 502/505 in wear, sludge and piston deposits as well as fuel economy and after treatment compatibility.
I was under the impression that the 504/507 spec was a low SAPS specification. All of the 504/507 oils seem to be 30 weights as opposed to mostly 40 weights in the 502/505 category so I guess fuel economy may also be a goal.
If the Lubrizol tool is to be believed, a 504/507 approved oil would be a better choice for most if not all engines, unless a long drain interval is desired?
Which VW vehicles specify 504/507? The EA888 turbo engine specifies 502/505. Why not 504/507? Why would the EA888 2.0 turbo specify 502/505 when 504/507 offers better wear, sludge and piston deposits?
Please educate me on this.


Does your operator's manual show the same thing my 2015 does? [502.00 / 503.00 / 504.00 that is 5w30 or 5w40 or grade appropriate for climate]
 
Originally Posted By: harrydog
Why would the EA888 2.0 turbo specify 502/505 when 504/507 offers better wear, sludge and piston deposits?
Please educate me on this.

Look again in your owner's manual. It should list both 502.00 as well as 504.00, so you can use either.

But as the other poster mentioned, the issue with using 504.00/507.00 oil in the US is that it might have a tough time making it through a typical 10K OCI due to our gasoline not being ultra low sulfur yet, apart from Cali.
 
It has to do with Low sulphur gas. Apart from California, rest of the country uses old fashion high sulfur gasoline, probably to remind us of good ole times when rivers were burning from pollution.
Stick to VW 502.00 like Castrol or M1 0W40. Avoid Castrol 5W40 that VW is using in dealerships.
Or use VW 504.00/507.00 and at 3K do UOA to check how it did. I did UOA in my CC, at 3K TBN was at 2.
 
Thanks for the explanations. So how does Lubrizol come up with their info? Are the better results with 504 based on shorter OCI's and low sulphur fuel? That's not comparing apples to apples.
But regardless 504 would appear to be better if you live in Europe and maybe in the US as well if you use a shorter OCI?
 
Originally Posted By: harrydog
Thanks for the explanations. So how does Lubrizol come up with their info? Are the better results with 504 based on shorter OCI's and low sulphur fuel? That's not comparing apples to apples.
But regardless 504 would appear to be better if you live in Europe and maybe in the US as well if you use a shorter OCI?

Well yes, you can run 504.00/507.00 and do short OCI's. Question is whether it is worth it since 504.00/507.00 is not cheap when you compare to 0W40 M1 or Castrol.
 
Originally Posted By: harrydog
So how does Lubrizol come up with their info? Are the better results with 504 based on shorter OCI's and low sulphur fuel? That's not comparing apples to apples.


They look at the testing required to meet each specification and make a judgement based on the limits imposed for each one.

For example, 502 00/505 00 has a maximum Noack limit of 13%, whereas 504 00/507 00 has a maximum of 11%. So therefore the newer spec is "better" in this area. Do the same comparison across the myriad lab and engine tests and you can draw a comparison that is valid and based on controlled tests.
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: harrydog
So how does Lubrizol come up with their info? Are the better results with 504 based on shorter OCI's and low sulphur fuel? That's not comparing apples to apples.


They look at the testing required to meet each specification and make a judgement based on the limits imposed for each one.

For example, 502 00/505 00 has a maximum Noack limit of 13%, whereas 504 00/507 00 has a maximum of 11%. So therefore the newer spec is "better" in this area. Do the same comparison across the myriad lab and engine tests and you can draw a comparison that is valid and based on controlled tests.

That is why you always buy VW 502.00 that also meets MB 229.5 which has NOACK of max 10%.
 
In Australia VW prefer 504/507 for all models except where 506.01 is required. For some older models 502/505 can be used but VW spec a shorter interval. VW will be basing their recommendations on the original 502/505 formulation and not later improved oils that may also meet 502/505. Over here at least, VW act as if 502/505 is obsolete.
 
I'm guessing most VW 502.00 oils far exceed the specified engine wear requirements we are viewing in the Lubrizol charts. On the other hand, I'm guessing VW 504/507 oils are meeting, but not exceeding the engine wear requirements to make that spec. So in the real world, some VW 502.00 oils might perform better in engine wear testing than VW 504/507 oils.
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
The 504 507 spec has a wear test on VW hardware over twice the length of 502 (when paired with 505 01)


Which is mid-saps.
 
Originally Posted By: VR6OOM
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
The 504 507 spec has a wear test on VW hardware over twice the length of 502 (when paired with 505 01)


Which is mid-saps.


Correct, VW 502 505 is now High SAPs and has no VW wear test requirement. However the 10 TBN min means its more suited to high sulphur fuels
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Look again in your owner's manual. It should list both 502.00 as well as 504.00, so you can use either.

But as the other poster mentioned, the issue with using 504.00/507.00 oil in the US is that it might have a tough time making it through a typical 10K OCI due to our gasoline not being ultra low sulfur yet, apart from Cali.

This is one of the several reasons that our gasoline is more expensive than the rest of the country.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Look again in your owner's manual. It should list both 502.00 as well as 504.00, so you can use either.

But as the other poster mentioned, the issue with using 504.00/507.00 oil in the US is that it might have a tough time making it through a typical 10K OCI due to our gasoline not being ultra low sulfur yet, apart from Cali.

This is one of the several reasons that our gasoline is more expensive than the rest of the country.

Not because of gasoline per se, but bcs. rest of the country does not require ULSG, so their refineries are not tuned to that.
That is why CA imports some gas from South Korea. Other part is tax.
 
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