Synthetic Additive Packages

[Langanobob]

On various internet forums I occasionally see someone ask about switching to synthetic oil in a vehicle that's always used conventional oil. Sometimes there is a response that the superior detergents in synthetic oil may dissolve deposits around seals and cause leaks. I think I also remember reading this on Mobil's website a long time ago.

My question is: Are the detergents in run of the mill synthetic oils (the kind you can buy at Walmart) actually and in practice any more effective than the detergents in a good quality non-synthetic oil?

Thank you,
Bob

 

[tig1]

M1 and PP or PU are outstanding synthetic oils and are superior to dino oils.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Detergents are the same in synthetic (Group3/4/5) oils and conventional (Group2) oils. Typically calcium sulfonates, with help from boron from what I've heard.

Best easy explanation of detergents specifically:
https://www.oronite.com/products/detergents.asp

There may be a difference in solvency properties of the basestocks, not the additives, which could conceivably be more or less effective at dissolving and dispersing varnish and sludge.

Note that all oils have to pass seal swell tests on several different types of polymer seals. GM's dexos1 spec, a good recent example, has to show proper performance in just about anything used on the planet, seriously complete.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: tig1
M1 and PP or PU are outstanding synthetic oils and are superior to dino oils.
And Walmart stocks them.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Langanobob
On various internet forums I occasionally see someone ask about switching to synthetic oil in a vehicle that's always used conventional oil. Sometimes there is a response that the superior detergents in synthetic oil may dissolve deposits around seals and cause leaks. I think I also remember reading this on Mobil's website a long time ago.

My question is: Are the detergents in run of the mill synthetic oils (the kind you can buy at Walmart) actually and in practice any more effective than the detergents in a good quality non-synthetic oil?

Thank you,
Bob

Define "run of the mill" synthetic oil. You are reading too many boutique oil ads.

 

[Dyusik]

The detergent packages seem to be the same, the syn oil will leave less for the next oil to clean, when compared to dino. Oil itself degrades into a byproduct in certain situations. Syn is less prone/ needs more severe condition to become that.
thats my understanding.

 

[Kawiguy454]

Back in the old days I think the cheap Dino oils would attack and swell the engine seals. The synthetics of the day would melt/clean the gooey rubber mess and it would start leaking. Newer viton formulations of seals are far less affected and so you dont hear about it much any more.

I drove a company dodge work van that always had cheap oil in it and used a little. I put M1 in 1 time and it started leaking a quart a week after that and never stopped even after I switched back to $.69/qt oil.

 

[CT8]

Look at the UOA postings and tell me the difference between the syn oil and "conventional" oils . Todays "conventional " oils aren't the 1970s oils.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: tig1
M1 and PP or PU are outstanding synthetic oils and are superior to dino oils.
And Walmart stocks them.

That's great, gentlemen, but how does that answer OP's question?

 

[Bigdaddy345]

It doesn't.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Originally Posted By: Langanobob
My question is: Are the detergents in run of the mill synthetic oils (the kind you can buy at Walmart) actually and in practice any more effective than the detergents in a good quality non-synthetic oil?



Please, restate your question. The "run of the mill synthetic oils (the kind you can buy at Walmart) are actually the standard for some of the best mass marketed oils in the world. The same can be said for the non-synthetic oil they sell. The phrase "run of the mill" does not fit well, here.

For an answer I'll give it a shot.

Given than, I'd say that the detergents in the synthetic oil have less to do because of the superior performance of the synthetic oil. So the answer might be, yes the detergents in synthetic oil may not be better but they do a better job.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Kawiguy454
Back in the old days I think the cheap Dino oils would attack and swell the engine seals. The synthetics of the day would melt/clean the gooey rubber mess and it would start leaking. Newer viton formulations of seals are far less affected and so you dont hear about it much any more.

I drove a company dodge work van that always had cheap oil in it and used a little. I put M1 in 1 time and it started leaking a quart a week after that and never stopped even after I switched back to $.69/qt oil.
I have never seen a gooey rubber mess in any of the engines I have been into.

 

[Kawiguy454]

Use your imagination ...86 dodge van 318ci using cheap oil engine doesn't leak ...use synth 1 time and rear main leaks after that. you dont need to be a master mechanic to figure that out. FWIW I have seen mushy gooey engine seals.

 

[widman]

The objective is to clean up the engine. Get the sludge out from around the seals so the good oil can soften and expand them. Get the carbon out of the ring grooves. It may leak or smoke for the first oil change, but will breath better later. Or put AutoRx in it if you want to speed up the effort.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
My question is: Are the detergents in run of the mill synthetic oils (the kind you can buy at Walmart) actually and in practice any more effective than the detergents in a good quality non-synthetic oil?


First off, additive packages for synthetic base oils of GroupIII and PAO's are different from those for mineral oils. The keyword here is solvency.

Additive packages contain a whole pot pouri of chemicals, including detergents and dispersants.

And while the exact same detergent chemistry may not be the same, the same "family" of detergent chemistry are in both synthetic oils and in mineral oils.

 

[Jake777]

to address the part about seals.. You will find that synthetic has great seal compatibility thats not the issue. the issue is do you have a older car that had less than great oil change habits like mine was and will the great cleaning power of the top synthetics remove that "false seal buildup" and expose dried and ill prepared seals to the smooth flow of the new oil causing a nice leak? It can happen

 

[alcyon]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Look at the UOA postings and tell me the difference between the syn oil and "conventional" oils . Todays "conventional " oils aren't the 1970s oils.

Outside the US it is..1970s oils.

 

[BrocLuno]

But the OP is in Reno NV ...

You takes your chances and you rolls the dice

Syn can loosen or clean stuff you may not want cleaned...

If old car/motor - just go with Valvoline Maxlife (red bottle, semi-syn). It still may loosen stuff (good) and it may leak (bad) but it has additional seal swell chemicals so the leak (if it happens) will prolly slow down or stop

 

[Langanobob]

Quote:

Please, restate your question. The "run of the mill synthetic oils (the kind you can buy at Walmart) are actually the standard for some of the best mass marketed oils in the world. The same can be said for the non-synthetic oil they sell. The phrase "run of the mill" does not fit well, here.



OneEyeJack, you're right, I should have been more clear or specific and I'll try again. What I probably should have stated was "Group III synthetic oils" as opposed to something like say Redline or Schaeffers which the typical vehicle owner switching to a synthetic wouldn't likely be using.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Langanobob

What I probably should have stated was "Group III synthetic oils" as opposed to something like say Redline or Schaeffers which the typical vehicle owner switching to a synthetic wouldn't likely be using.

Isn't Shaeffers a "group III synthetic oil"?