Recent Topics
KoruWorks code
by GumbyJarvis - 08/21/19 06:34 PM
Differential / Axle VENT
by MasterSolenoid - 08/21/19 06:14 PM
Oil for Volvo S60 T6 R-Design
by Luke352 - 08/21/19 05:52 PM
Motorcraft 5w30 synthetic blend SN+
by mpgo4th - 08/21/19 05:37 PM
6.7 powerstroke cab off repair work
by mattd - 08/21/19 04:23 PM
talk to me about security cameras
by 1978elcamino - 08/21/19 03:30 PM
modem in 1 room want phone in another room
by raaizin - 08/21/19 02:17 PM
AC Belt Question
by BISCUT - 08/21/19 02:10 PM
Pros and cons of Electronic Parking Brakes?
by KGMtech - 08/21/19 01:50 PM
Got my first BS sample kit - now what?
by ARCOgraphite - 08/21/19 01:00 PM
2016 Mazda6: no belt replacement interval
by Elkins45 - 08/21/19 01:00 PM
Replaced alternator but kept belt
by Deontologist - 08/21/19 12:51 PM
NapaGold 1348 c&p, 7+yr.OPE fci.
by Sayjac - 08/21/19 12:38 PM
Toyo Proxes ST3
by Redright9 - 08/21/19 12:20 PM
Do you trust air filling stations?
by walterjay - 08/21/19 12:10 PM
Someone explain this part of youtube.
by atikovi - 08/21/19 10:48 AM
Help choosing suspension/steering parts '04 Ranger
by Patrologia - 08/21/19 10:43 AM
Newest Members
yote556, JimJersey, Sissen, Luke352, drh214
69021 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
123 registered members (4WD, 01rangerxl, 2015_PSD, 2010Civic, 379KITTY, 12 invisible), 2,057 guests, and 22 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics293,618
Posts5,043,560
Members69,021
Most Online3,532
Jul 30th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 #3953762 12/20/15 07:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 48
B
bismillah Offline OP
OP Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 48
Hi guys, I am writing from Italy. I own a Land Rover Defender Td5 and the biodiesel topic has always interested me. By chance going to the library I found a book on biodiesel which said that potentially every newly diesel car might run with biodiesel alone or blended with petrodiesel in any proportions. Infact biodiesel is made to be used in standard diesel engines.

After reading a bit on the internet I found out two things:

1) in Italy (which by the way is one of Europe's leading manufacturers) biodiesel is not sold by any street pump but only by manufacturers that come and fill your big tank (which a private user does not have). To buy biodiesel at the fuel pump the nearest place is in Switzerland, where I often go.

2) Land Rover says nothing about using biodiesel but looking on the internet is said to be harmful to the fuel pump and injectors and will absolutely not recommended to use. But, forgive me the question, but how is it that can be so damaging if it is produced according to standards to have similar characteristics to petrodiesel. Moreoverthen, on my car, with an engine concept not so recent and accurate.

I would like your opinion. Experience and advice about the use of biodiesel, alone or bleand, in my Land Rover Defender Td5.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3953809 12/20/15 08:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,259
B
bullwinkle Online Confused
Online Confused
B
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,259
There are a few drawbacks to biodiesel usage-if you don't use it fast enough, it can actually turn rancid & clog fuel systems, & it is a very powerful cleaner/solvent-it can actually dissolve fuel system deposits, & even rubber parts, causing problems. If Land Rover doesn't approve it, even in B5 (5% biodiesel/95% regular diesel), their fuel system components must not be compatible.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3953862 12/20/15 09:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,094
B
Boomer Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,094
https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf

If you go through this presentation by Mercedes Benz on the problems associated with biodiesel, I think you will understand why it may be harnmful at higher percentages to your vehicle.


2019 VW Passat 2.0 liter gasoline DI engine, DI, 500 miles, Castrol Professional VW 508 0W-20
2017 VW Golf All Track 1.8 liter gas engine DI, 24,100 miles Castrol Professional VW 505 5W-40
Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3953918 12/20/15 10:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,313
B
Blkstanger Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,313
Don't do it! The military base where I work got a delivery of bio diesel by mistake. It was put into generators where it sat and grew bacteria. $60,000 later all the fuel systems were replaced. Big rigs can get away with it as they are on the road for long periods of time and burn it all off. I would not ever think of using it after seeing what it can do.


99 Jeep WJ 4.7 200,000mi. Maxlife 10w30, Fram Ultra.
Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bullwinkle] #3954225 12/21/15 08:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 48
B
bismillah Offline OP
OP Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 48
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
There are a few drawbacks to biodiesel usage-if you don't use it fast enough, it can actually turn rancid & clog fuel systems, & it is a very powerful cleaner/solvent-it can actually dissolve fuel system deposits, & even rubber parts, causing problems. If Land Rover doesn't approve it, even in B5 (5% biodiesel/95% regular diesel), their fuel system components must not be compatible.


In italy is only present by european EN590 diesel with 7 or now 8% of biodiesel (unless you use performance diesel that costs a lot but is biodiesel free). I obviously used this (as anyone) for at list 150k km without problems.

I have not really found a information about the use of biodiesel in my car.

But I see that America is very popular and also used at higher concentrations than in Europe. I do not believe that the car produced for Europe is different from that for USA.

Consider also that Land Rover Defender is often used in Africa where the quality of diesel fuel do not like European. It will have large tolerances.

The car manual says nothing about the use of biodiesel.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3954729 12/21/15 04:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,020
K
Kiwi_ME Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,020
It was ironic that biodiesel became a popular topic about the same time manufacturers started making common rail diesels with the much-higher pressures and finer, and more complex spray patterns.

If there is any mention of BD at all in new car manuals it's B5, perhaps B10. Personally, I would not take the risk of running outside the fuel spec on your expensive engine.

Got a '80s Mercedes, or just about any other pre-common rail diesel, no problem.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3964023 12/31/15 06:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,499
T
TiredTrucker Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,499
I have been using between B5 and B15 for most of this century, both common rail and traditional injector setups. In my semi trucks (oldest a 1995 that went to 1.4 million miles before I sold it and had no major engine repairs except 1 injector), my New Holland tractor, a 2006 Jeep Liberty Diesel with a VM 2.8L in it. In the New Holland tractor, since it is more seasonal usage, I have let the diesel sit in it for months with no problems. The Italian VM engine in the Jeep sure seemed to do quite well on BD, but it has common rail. But my present factory rebuilt 1999 Detroit Series 60 12.7L is not common rail and has been fed B5-B15 since I dropped it in the truck and this motor is at 487688 miles / 10323 hrs and runs great. Detroit does not recommend BD in that motor at all.

This all interesting since Rudolf Diesel ran his motors on peanut oil and was designed for using various vegetable oils. BD is primarily sourced from those types of oils.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: TiredTrucker] #3971064 01/06/16 06:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,253
S
Shannow Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,253
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
This all interesting since Rudolf Diesel ran his motors on peanut oil and was designed for using various vegetable oils. BD is primarily sourced from those types of oils.


LOL, corn is grass, now this...

Biodiesel is nothing like the trigycerides that it is formed from.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3971081 01/06/16 07:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,253
S
Shannow Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,253
Originally Posted By: bismillah
Hi guys, I am writing from Italy. I own a Land Rover Defender Td5 and the biodiesel topic has always interested me. By chance going to the library I found a book on biodiesel which said that potentially every newly diesel car might run with biodiesel alone or blended with petrodiesel in any proportions. Infact biodiesel is made to be used in standard diesel engines.

After reading a bit on the internet I found out two things:

1) in Italy (which by the way is one of Europe's leading manufacturers) biodiesel is not sold by any street pump but only by manufacturers that come and fill your big tank (which a private user does not have). To buy biodiesel at the fuel pump the nearest place is in Switzerland, where I often go.

2) Land Rover says nothing about using biodiesel but looking on the internet is said to be harmful to the fuel pump and injectors and will absolutely not recommended to use. But, forgive me the question, but how is it that can be so damaging if it is produced according to standards to have similar characteristics to petrodiesel. Moreoverthen, on my car, with an engine concept not so recent and accurate.

I would like your opinion. Experience and advice about the use of biodiesel, alone or bleand, in my Land Rover Defender Td5.


backyard biodiesel has the potential to contain a fair bit of junk, and left over glycerine (in breaking the triglycerides, the glycerine is released (a bit like making soap)...that can cause big problems, and occasionally, the big producers sometimes have a whoops moment and make bad biodiesel.

(It's some of that junk that gave it a great rep for lubricity, it's still good, just not as "good" as when it was "bad").

Being an ester, it's a great cleaner, and if you throw it in any significant concentration to an old system that's run dino diesel, there's a moderate chance that all the junk in the system will be liberated, and cause filter problems and pluggages.

Probably not an issue for you, but it often has a poorer cloud point than regular diesel.

It's got a better ability to grow bugs (but diesel does that too, bio is just better at it).

I'd use it, I make a little every now and then as a hobby, but always only at a few percent...I wouldn't go over 5-10%. My local (Caltex) has a couple percent (like 2) to improve lubricity.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: Shannow] #3974614 01/10/16 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,499
T
TiredTrucker Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,499
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
This all interesting since Rudolf Diesel ran his motors on peanut oil and was designed for using various vegetable oils. BD is primarily sourced from those types of oils.


LOL, corn is grass, now this...

Biodiesel is nothing like the trigycerides that it is formed from.


And what was an error in what I said? I said is was sourced from those oils, not necessarily the same thing. Biodiesel production is from various plant derived seed oils. Soybean, Peanut, Corn, Flaxseed, Rapeseed, and also some animal fats. it is just a refined product from what Rudolf initially used. You really have some issues that cause you to attack anyone who does not see things the exact two dimensional way you do. Can't help you with that, as I didn't go beyond 201 level psychology in College. It wasn't my major.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: TiredTrucker] #3975314 01/10/16 11:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,253
S
Shannow Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,253
OK, they are the same...and regular diesel once was plants, so there's no difference between regular and biodiesel.

Except for atomic structure, the nature of the oil/fat/ester as delivered to your tank...just about most things.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #4115936 06/05/16 04:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,648
P
Pontual Offline
Offline
P
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,648
Rudolf Diesel used peanut oil, when he presented the cyclo diesel engine.

Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™