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Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 #3953762 12/20/15 06:41 PM
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bismillah Offline OP
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Hi guys, I am writing from Italy. I own a Land Rover Defender Td5 and the biodiesel topic has always interested me. By chance going to the library I found a book on biodiesel which said that potentially every newly diesel car might run with biodiesel alone or blended with petrodiesel in any proportions. Infact biodiesel is made to be used in standard diesel engines.

After reading a bit on the internet I found out two things:

1) in Italy (which by the way is one of Europe's leading manufacturers) biodiesel is not sold by any street pump but only by manufacturers that come and fill your big tank (which a private user does not have). To buy biodiesel at the fuel pump the nearest place is in Switzerland, where I often go.

2) Land Rover says nothing about using biodiesel but looking on the internet is said to be harmful to the fuel pump and injectors and will absolutely not recommended to use. But, forgive me the question, but how is it that can be so damaging if it is produced according to standards to have similar characteristics to petrodiesel. Moreoverthen, on my car, with an engine concept not so recent and accurate.

I would like your opinion. Experience and advice about the use of biodiesel, alone or bleand, in my Land Rover Defender Td5.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3953809 12/20/15 07:20 PM
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bullwinkle Offline
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There are a few drawbacks to biodiesel usage-if you don't use it fast enough, it can actually turn rancid & clog fuel systems, & it is a very powerful cleaner/solvent-it can actually dissolve fuel system deposits, & even rubber parts, causing problems. If Land Rover doesn't approve it, even in B5 (5% biodiesel/95% regular diesel), their fuel system components must not be compatible.


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Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3953862 12/20/15 08:00 PM
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Boomer Offline
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https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf

If you go through this presentation by Mercedes Benz on the problems associated with biodiesel, I think you will understand why it may be harnmful at higher percentages to your vehicle.


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Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3953918 12/20/15 09:01 PM
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Don't do it! The military base where I work got a delivery of bio diesel by mistake. It was put into generators where it sat and grew bacteria. $60,000 later all the fuel systems were replaced. Big rigs can get away with it as they are on the road for long periods of time and burn it all off. I would not ever think of using it after seeing what it can do.


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Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bullwinkle] #3954225 12/21/15 07:05 AM
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bismillah Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
There are a few drawbacks to biodiesel usage-if you don't use it fast enough, it can actually turn rancid & clog fuel systems, & it is a very powerful cleaner/solvent-it can actually dissolve fuel system deposits, & even rubber parts, causing problems. If Land Rover doesn't approve it, even in B5 (5% biodiesel/95% regular diesel), their fuel system components must not be compatible.


In italy is only present by european EN590 diesel with 7 or now 8% of biodiesel (unless you use performance diesel that costs a lot but is biodiesel free). I obviously used this (as anyone) for at list 150k km without problems.

I have not really found a information about the use of biodiesel in my car.

But I see that America is very popular and also used at higher concentrations than in Europe. I do not believe that the car produced for Europe is different from that for USA.

Consider also that Land Rover Defender is often used in Africa where the quality of diesel fuel do not like European. It will have large tolerances.

The car manual says nothing about the use of biodiesel.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3954729 12/21/15 03:19 PM
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It was ironic that biodiesel became a popular topic about the same time manufacturers started making common rail diesels with the much-higher pressures and finer, and more complex spray patterns.

If there is any mention of BD at all in new car manuals it's B5, perhaps B10. Personally, I would not take the risk of running outside the fuel spec on your expensive engine.

Got a '80s Mercedes, or just about any other pre-common rail diesel, no problem.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3964023 12/31/15 05:33 AM
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I have been using between B5 and B15 for most of this century, both common rail and traditional injector setups. In my semi trucks (oldest a 1995 that went to 1.4 million miles before I sold it and had no major engine repairs except 1 injector), my New Holland tractor, a 2006 Jeep Liberty Diesel with a VM 2.8L in it. In the New Holland tractor, since it is more seasonal usage, I have let the diesel sit in it for months with no problems. The Italian VM engine in the Jeep sure seemed to do quite well on BD, but it has common rail. But my present factory rebuilt 1999 Detroit Series 60 12.7L is not common rail and has been fed B5-B15 since I dropped it in the truck and this motor is at 487688 miles / 10323 hrs and runs great. Detroit does not recommend BD in that motor at all.

This all interesting since Rudolf Diesel ran his motors on peanut oil and was designed for using various vegetable oils. BD is primarily sourced from those types of oils.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: TiredTrucker] #3971064 01/06/16 05:50 PM
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Shannow Offline
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Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
This all interesting since Rudolf Diesel ran his motors on peanut oil and was designed for using various vegetable oils. BD is primarily sourced from those types of oils.


LOL, corn is grass, now this...

Biodiesel is nothing like the trigycerides that it is formed from.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #3971081 01/06/16 06:09 PM
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Shannow Offline
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Originally Posted By: bismillah
Hi guys, I am writing from Italy. I own a Land Rover Defender Td5 and the biodiesel topic has always interested me. By chance going to the library I found a book on biodiesel which said that potentially every newly diesel car might run with biodiesel alone or blended with petrodiesel in any proportions. Infact biodiesel is made to be used in standard diesel engines.

After reading a bit on the internet I found out two things:

1) in Italy (which by the way is one of Europe's leading manufacturers) biodiesel is not sold by any street pump but only by manufacturers that come and fill your big tank (which a private user does not have). To buy biodiesel at the fuel pump the nearest place is in Switzerland, where I often go.

2) Land Rover says nothing about using biodiesel but looking on the internet is said to be harmful to the fuel pump and injectors and will absolutely not recommended to use. But, forgive me the question, but how is it that can be so damaging if it is produced according to standards to have similar characteristics to petrodiesel. Moreoverthen, on my car, with an engine concept not so recent and accurate.

I would like your opinion. Experience and advice about the use of biodiesel, alone or bleand, in my Land Rover Defender Td5.


backyard biodiesel has the potential to contain a fair bit of junk, and left over glycerine (in breaking the triglycerides, the glycerine is released (a bit like making soap)...that can cause big problems, and occasionally, the big producers sometimes have a whoops moment and make bad biodiesel.

(It's some of that junk that gave it a great rep for lubricity, it's still good, just not as "good" as when it was "bad").

Being an ester, it's a great cleaner, and if you throw it in any significant concentration to an old system that's run dino diesel, there's a moderate chance that all the junk in the system will be liberated, and cause filter problems and pluggages.

Probably not an issue for you, but it often has a poorer cloud point than regular diesel.

It's got a better ability to grow bugs (but diesel does that too, bio is just better at it).

I'd use it, I make a little every now and then as a hobby, but always only at a few percent...I wouldn't go over 5-10%. My local (Caltex) has a couple percent (like 2) to improve lubricity.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: Shannow] #3974614 01/10/16 12:06 PM
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TiredTrucker Offline
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
This all interesting since Rudolf Diesel ran his motors on peanut oil and was designed for using various vegetable oils. BD is primarily sourced from those types of oils.


LOL, corn is grass, now this...

Biodiesel is nothing like the trigycerides that it is formed from.


And what was an error in what I said? I said is was sourced from those oils, not necessarily the same thing. Biodiesel production is from various plant derived seed oils. Soybean, Peanut, Corn, Flaxseed, Rapeseed, and also some animal fats. it is just a refined product from what Rudolf initially used. You really have some issues that cause you to attack anyone who does not see things the exact two dimensional way you do. Can't help you with that, as I didn't go beyond 201 level psychology in College. It wasn't my major.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: TiredTrucker] #3975314 01/10/16 10:48 PM
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OK, they are the same...and regular diesel once was plants, so there's no difference between regular and biodiesel.

Except for atomic structure, the nature of the oil/fat/ester as delivered to your tank...just about most things.

Re: Biodiesel in Land Rover Defender Td5 [Re: bismillah] #4115936 06/05/16 03:01 PM
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Rudolf Diesel used peanut oil, when he presented the cyclo diesel engine.

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