Oil's affect on motorcycle gear shift feel?

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Just realised I'm using Gulf Western 75-90 GL5 in my BMW gearbox (it's in a BP drum, just remembered what I put in the drum a month ago) It should have plain 90, but this stuff is GL5, so thought I'd give it a go. One thing you are always aware of riding an Airhead is gearchanges, like driving an old truck with a crash box, it's something you always aim to get right, but some shifts still catch you out.

I've only ridden the bike once since the oil change, and don't remember a thing about gearchanges, I think it's vastly improved.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
where does the HTHS end up ?


Come clean Professor... they have right know that your article made no mention of 3.1... its deceptive to link that article with your HTHS assumption...

Originally Posted By: Shannow

That's why I disagree with your oil advice, these oils are economy oils.


You recommended Mobil 1 30 for your motorcycle... not a problem...

I recommended Mobil 1 30 for your motorcycle... problem!!!

Quote Shannow
"Like I've said previously, I think you'd be better with Mobil 1 5W30, as
it's viscosity is identical freezing to 100C, and it's way less VII in
the mix."

"If I was in the US, I'd probably have a crack at Amsoil 10W30
synthetic motorcycle oil"

"Nothing against 30s at all, my stash is predominantly 5W30 and 10W30
(all A3/B4 rated)"


Originally Posted By: Shannow

You are in a starting position that is the wrong oil, the wrong TYPE of oil and additive package, and are telling everyone to use it.


Have you notice there are no shortage of people who claim their oil is right and your oil
is wrong... but no one is wearing out their engines and no one is pitting their gears
despite the use of either a 30 40 or 50 viscosity... or either use of synthetic versus
mineral... or either the use of any of the worlds brands... what we know for certain is
no oil is understood as death and that a 30 will eat less HP than either a 40 or 50...
The fuss over my numbers are better than your numbers is just so much bragging rights
because everyone is meeting or exceeding their mileage expectations in the real world...

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Also, I was responding to your viscosity doesn't protect gears, additves do...do you agree that it's viscosity, i.e. HTHS now ?


I agree with the Lab Coats in your article that additives are key in controlling wear no
matter if we choose either a 30 or 40 or 50 viscosity... no one is pitting their gears in
the real world running the current crop of oils... thank you science...

Quote your article...
"Additives play a more important role in controlling wear than
viscosity grades," he said.
 
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Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
You recommended Mobil 1 30 for your motorcycle... not a problem...

I recommended Mobil 1 30 for your motorcycle... problem!!!

Quote Shannow
"Like I've said previously, I think you'd be better with Mobil 1 5W30, as
it's viscosity is identical freezing to 100C, and it's way less VII in
the mix."


BSS...you are just being a douche...

I stated that YOU, with YOUR preferences would be better off with the 5W30 for the reasons described.

I did NOT say that was my recommendation for anyone else, just you in LarryLand, with our penchant for ILSAC oils.

Your "gravity flow", and ball bearing in a test tube would be exactly the same for M1 5W30 and 0W30 down to freezing...thats YOUR gravity Flow nonsense.

You aren't starting your bike at -40C (or F), so you have no use for the 0W part, and the disadvantages that come with it.

Again, and I repeat myself over and over....I was responding to YOUR choice ... in LaLaland.

I still maintain that YOU would be better off with M1 5W30 over 0W30...that's it.

NOT for any thinking person with a grasp on reality.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow


BSS...you are just being a douche...

NOT for any thinking person with a grasp on reality.


Whats the matter Professor??? is there trouble at home???

idiot+driver.jpg
 
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Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Shannow
where does the HTHS end up ?


Come clean Professor... they have right know that your article made no mention of 3.1... its deceptive to link that article with your HTHS assumption...

Originally Posted By: Shannow

That's why I disagree with your oil advice, these oils are economy oils.


If you are stating with an ILSAC oil, you are starting with an oil of HTHS 3.0-3.1.

ILSAC oils have high amounts of Viscosity Index Improvers, and the ILSAC grades have quite low shear stability, as they are relying on the oil shearing in conjunction with oxidative thickening to keep the oil from reducing economy while running.

In a shared sump, the shearing is present always, and before the oxidative thckening.

If you are starting at the bottom end of the acceptable range...you are NOT finishing there.

Thus why I think your choices are wrong.

HDMO and proper motorcycle oils are made with less thickener, and more shear stable thickeners...some of the HDMO shear stability tests are 3 times the duration for a pass than a car oil requires.

An while you are convinced that additive is the answer, an SN Xw30 has less of THAT as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow


Thus why I think your choices are wrong.


Its deceptive to warn this oil is wrong and this oil is right... all you
can say for certain is that your oil choice in an alternative to my choice
but both will meet and exceed your mileage expectations...
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Shannow


Thus why I think your choices are wrong.


Its deceptive to warn this oil is wrong and this oil is right... all you
can say for certain is that your oil choice in an alternative to my choice
but both will meet and exceed your mileage expectations...


Well, when YOU are recommending an ILSAC friction modified oil for people with high power densities, wet clutches, and shared sumps, on the balance of probabilities, I'm "more right" than you.


You ignore everything that the JAMA, the collection of Japanese OEMs say, you ignore the SAE, and the API with your recommendations...

Isn't it deceptive for you to recommend that oil for each and every motorcycle application when it meets NONE of the performance requirements of the bike manufacturer ?

When confronted with evidence, you start name calling, and "look over there, a picture that means nothing"
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Shannow


BSS...you are just being a douche...

NOT for any thinking person with a grasp on reality.


Whats the matter Professor??? is there trouble at home???


No, I just don't like playing chess with pigeons...
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow


I'm "more right" than you.


That only matters to owners if the price is right since we know for certain both oil
recommendations will meet and exceed their mileage expectations...
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
will meet and exceed their mileage expectations...


You keep using that word, and I'm wondering how you are using it...

mileage as in "rate of fuel used per distance travelled" ?

or

mileage as in "how long the bike lasts" ?

If it's the former, then you are probably correct, an ILSAC oil will use less fuel.

If it's the latter, then you acknowledge that it's probably shortening component life over the manufacturer recommended grades, but it doesn't matter...and you are using the wrong term in the wrong context.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow


No, I just don't like playing chess with pigeons...




I only like playing chess with people who are smarter than me because I can not loose...
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow


mileage as in "how long the bike lasts" ?



This would be so easy if you actually rode a motorcycle all theses years...
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Quote your article...
"Additives play a more important role in controlling wear than
viscosity grades," he said.


Do you understand the difference between pitting and wear ?

Stupid question, as you stated that the pitting pictures were of foreign object damage.

BLS, there is a difference between pitting and wear.

Pitting is protected against by the viscosity of the oil cushioning the gear teeth as they mesh, and reducing the face to face loads.

Additives work in sliding contact (like differentials).

Look at Mr. Honda's gear teeth, and see how much sliding is in a typical MC gearbox.
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Shannow


No, I just don't like playing chess with pigeons...




I only like playing chess with people who are smarter than me because I can not loose...


LOL
 
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Originally Posted By: Shannow


Do you understand the difference between pitting and wear ?


Mercy Professor the only pitting that needs understanding is our rivalry...
 
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It really is true what they say about playing chess with a pigeon...google it...

Larry,
it's not rivalry, it's me trying to help others NOT follow some really poor advice on their machines...and also trying to help YOU correct some obviously deeply held beliefs that are plain incorrect.

Rather than addressing the issues
* you start name calling;
* accuse me of being on the take from additive suppliers;
* put words in my mouth that you clearly know are a deliberate misrepresentation of my statements.
* Claim outragious things like "the gearboxes were tested at 150C" to try to throw others off the path.

By placing it as "rivalry", you demonstrate that you are so tied to your eroneous beliefs that you'll do anything to "win" people's opinion.

You have some things right, but so does a broken clock twice per day.
 
My Suzuki GS850s are oil-breakers; at around 2000 miles in nearly every case, there's a fairly noticeable down-grade in shift quality, so the oil is next on the list to get done as soon as reasonably possible. Could be there's plenty of life left in it, but when the mechanical bits don't feel right through the shift lever, I take it as in indication the small but important bits of the oil additive package are done, and I don't really feel like risking the engine for the sake of a few more miles.
I've tried all sorts of oil in there; from Castrol GTX 20w50 to 5w40 synth, currently it's running Total Racing 5w50 to see how long it lasts.
Whatever the case, I always changed at 2000 miles, and the few times I felt inclined to push beyond that, the notchiness would appear anyway, irrespective of what was in there.
 
What I'd be interested in is how a monograde (that would practically not shear) would hold up in a shared sump bike. I'm tempted to try something like the Eni i-Sigma Monograde line sometime in the future. My manual calls for API SF or SG (yes, 2004 engine).
 
Originally Posted By: Atesz792
What I'd be interested in is how a monograde (that would practically not shear) would hold up in a shared sump bike. I'm tempted to try something like the Eni i-Sigma Monograde line sometime in the future. My manual calls for API SF or SG (yes, 2004 engine).


"Shear" is when the molecule chain is broken down leaving multiple fractions of that chain making the oil thinner.

It doesn't matter what grade/viscosity/multi/straight an oil is, all oils will shear when their threshold has been crossed.
 
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