List of new cars with Timing belts?

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Trav

Do a few chains on those Euro cars with V engines then tell us how good they are. Some of these cars need to have the whole front bumper, radiator and condenser removed before you can even get to the front of the engine.



Scary!

But the theories are that the chain would never need replacement,, and that if you can afford a big euro v engine, that you can afford the maintenance, no?

A belt would put be easier in those situations, would it?



Same [censored] has come off to reach that area to do a timing belt.


I'll take a chain over a belt all day, every day. I would expect 3x the life minimum from a proper timing chain.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Shark

I'll take a chain over a belt all day, every day. I would expect 3x the life minimum from a proper timing chain.


Last 3x perhaps... But after 1x the duration of a belt changeout, how far off is timing? After 2x the duration?

MB sells chain offset keys for this reason, but I doubt that most folks who don't need to do valve adjustments have any clue how far off their timing is...

 

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Shark

I'll take a chain over a belt all day, every day. I would expect 3x the life minimum from a proper timing chain.


Last 3x perhaps... But after 1x the duration of a belt changeout, how far off is timing? After 2x the duration?

MB sells chain offset keys for this reason, but I doubt that most folks who don't need to do valve adjustments have any clue how far off their timing is...



If it's not throwing a P0017/P0008 or whatever else at 200,000+ miles I could care less.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Shark
Originally Posted By: JHZR2

MB sells chain offset keys for this reason, but I doubt that most folks who don't need to do valve adjustments have any clue how far off their timing is...



If it's not throwing a P0017/P0008 or whatever else at 200,000+ miles I could care less.


My OM617 300D doesn't have a check engine light let alone a P00 code.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Shark
Same stuff has come off to reach that area to do a timing belt.


Perhaps not. When a belt is used, the manufacturer designs-in access to that belt so that it can be serviced. Not all timing belt jobs are easy, but they are normally simpler than a timing chain job, because timing chains are typically sealed up for life. And we know from experience that timing chains don't always last a long time.

The question was asked earlier, what happens when a plastic guide breaks in a timing chain drive? You get a lot of noise, and a lot of wear. This is exactly what happens in many KA24 engines from Nissan from the mid-90s. I owned one, a KA24E in a '95 truck. The chain guides and/or tensioner fail, and the chain slaps around until enough oil pressure is built-up in the tensioner to make it tight again. This often causes increased wear on the chain or on the engine block itself. In the case of the KA24 engines, the chain would slap against the block and eventually wear into one of the coolant passages.

On the flip side, I owned two Cadillac Northstar engines which have very robust timing chain systems. Good thing, too -- replacement would be a real bear on those. The timing cover, as with all chain systems, is a sealed component and a lot has to come off to get to it. They mount components to it because they never intend for that timing cover to come off. That strategy works in engines like the Northstar, because the chain systems were good. That strategy didn't work in engines like the 3.6L, where they had a lot of timing chain problems on certain model years.

After owning a number of good and bad timing chain engines, and after changing one timing belt myself on our Acura MDX, I've come to not only accept timing belts, but to almost prefer them. While timing chains are sometimes a roll of the dice (especially on a new engine design that's not proven), timing belts are very rarely problematic, are almost always quiet, and don't shear the oil any at all. There are certainly drawbacks to timing belts, but they have material advantages as well. I prefer the known quantity in a timing belt (the replacement job every 100k miles) to the unknown quantity in a timing chain (will it truly last, or will I face a big repair bill, there?).

For similar reasons, I prefer manually-adjustable valvetrains instead of hydraulic lash adjusters, but that's a topic for a different subject...

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I finally was able to do a timing belt on a vehicle. I am more comfortable with the process.

However, with that said, I don't think they are remotely superior. They are not, at all, easily accessible. If they were easy to replace like a serp. belt, fine. But they are just a ridiculous amount of work for something that could just be made lifetime.

I wouldn't say "no" to a vehicle with one, but the entire time of owning one, I would be dreading the time I have to spend a day or $1000 at a shop to have the thing down for a day getting the belt changed.

 

[Andrew1972]

The Subaru STI still has a timing belt. It shares the EJ255 motor with my wifes 2005 Legacy turbo wagon. I believe the balance of all Subaru went over to timing chains.

My local Subaru indy changed the timing belt in hr) for a grand total of $300. The 2nd time around at 170k miles I had a burned valve so it got changed out with no real labor charge since part of repair.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Shark
Same stuff has come off to reach that area to do a timing belt.


Perhaps not. When a belt is used, the manufacturer designs-in access to that belt so that it can be serviced. Not all timing belt jobs are easy, but they are normally simpler than a timing chain job, because timing chains are typically sealed up for life. And we know from experience that timing chains don't always last a long time.


This mostly applies to models that have only one or two engine options available. Japanese models are pretty much all like that. You either have a choice of a V6 or 4 cylinder models. This allows them to design better access for a TB job.

Turn this around to German manufacturers where they usually have a range of engines to choose from, for a particular model, some ranging from small 4 cylinder all the way to V8s, and you can see that it is much harder to keep some of the maintenance items, including TB, to have fairly easy access. In those cases having a TB or a chain would not make any significant difference in labor to change either of the types.

As for me, I do prefer chains, but I'm not scared of belts either. And when shopping for a vehicle, engine bay layout, access to various components etc. is always taken into account.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
I finally was able to do a timing belt on a vehicle. I am more comfortable with the process.

However, with that said, I don't think they are remotely superior. They are not, at all, easily accessible. If they were easy to replace like a serp. belt, fine. But they are just a ridiculous amount of work for something that could just be made lifetime.

I wouldn't say "no" to a vehicle with one, but the entire time of owning one, I would be dreading the time I have to spend a day or $1000 at a shop to have the thing down for a day getting the belt changed.
I have an indy shop in town which will do a Toyota I 4 belt with water pump replacement as well for 200 bucks, as they say "all day long".

 

[SwampSurvivor]

It has to be a loss leader or a specific set of vehicles where one does not have to remove 3 or 4 engine mounts, play with removing the cam pulleys (required on some vehicles like Aveo).

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Belts are sometimes quieter and with all these new engine designs sometimes they are better.. We see more problems with newer engines that have chains then with belts.


Toyota touted the timing belt in the 1UZ-FE V8 developed for the Lexus LS400 as one reason why they were able to achieve unheard of NVH levels.

Isn't Ford using a oil-bathed polyurethane timing belt in the new EcoBoost I3 in the Fiesta?

 

[hattaresguy]

At least you don't have to yank the engine like on most Ferrari's!

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: madRiver
My local Subaru indy changed the timing belt in hr) for a grand total of $300. The 2nd time around at 170k miles I had a burned valve so it got changed out with no real labor charge since part of repair.

Most knowledgeable Subaru owners change all the pulleys, Water Pump and tensioner. The belt always fails bc one of these components fail. That means about $1200 at a Subaru place.