VTC actuator causing timing chain stretch?

[Churchill]

I had a 2008 Accord that suffered from this flaw. When I brought it to the dealer to be fixed, the service writer told me that the timing chain tensioner would probably need to be replaced too. Unfortunately he was correct. The faulty VTC actuator causes oil starvation at cold start up. The lack of oil stresses the timing chain to the point that the tensioner eventually breaks. Another unpleasant side effect is piston ring wear. All of these cars burn oil. Sometimes as much as 1.5-2 qt per 1k miles. No need for an formal oil change at this point, the oil is always new! All that oil going out the exhaust is hitting the catalytic converter, which are not cheap.
Honda refused to acknowledge that they were at fault for anything.
I will never purchase any Honda product again.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: Churchill
I had a 2008 Accord that suffered from this flaw. When I brought it to the dealer to be fixed, the service writer told me that the timing chain tensioner would probably need to be replaced too. Unfortunately he was correct. The faulty VTC actuator causes oil starvation at cold start up. The lack of oil stresses the timing chain to the point that the tensioner eventually breaks. Another unpleasant side effect is piston ring wear. All of these cars burn oil. Sometimes as much as 1.5-2 qt per 1k miles. No need for an formal oil change at this point, the oil is always new! All that oil going out the exhaust is hitting the catalytic converter, which are not cheap.
Honda refused to acknowledge that they were at fault for anything.
I will never purchase any Honda product again.


Could you explain how it causes oil starvation? And how this is related to piston ring wear?

 

[Churchill]

Hi Greg. I saw your posting on the Honda 8th Generation Accord Forum. This problem is well documented there. Just search for VTC, rattle at cold start up, or oil consumption.

Honda made a mistake by ignoring this.

First they alienated the original owners. Now there is going of be a second wave of unhappy people who purchase these lemons used.

Does your car burn oil?

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: Churchill
Hi Greg. I saw your posting on the Honda 8th Generation Accord Forum. This problem is well documented there. Just search for VTC, rattle at cold start up, or oil consumption.

Honda made a mistake by ignoring this.

First they alienated the original owners. Now there is going of be a second wave of unhappy people who purchase these lemons used.

Does your car burn oil?


No, it does not burn any noticeable amount. I got the car almost 4 months ago, changed the oil about 1 month after I got it. So it has 3 months and 2000 miles on the first oil change and the level hasn't moved at all. I know about the VTC issues and oil burning issues....but how are they related?

 

[Churchill]

The rattle you hear at cold start up is because oil has drained away (over night) from places in the engine where it needs to be. It is just for a few seconds but over the course of several months, parts like the piston rings wear from the extra metal on metal contact. There are many posts that explain this better than I have.

The bottom line is that you are going to start seeing more and more oil consumption. Honda will tell you this is normal, but is not.

Replacing the rings is a complicated job. Do you really want your new engine completely torn apart?

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: Churchill
The rattle you hear at cold start up is because oil has drained away (over night) from places in the engine where it needs to be. It is just for a few seconds but over the course of several months, parts like the piston rings wear from the extra metal on metal contact. There are many posts that explain this better than I have.

The bottom line is that you are going to start seeing more and more oil consumption. Honda will tell you this is normal, but is not.

Replacing the rings is a complicated job. Do you really want your new engine completely torn apart?


Oil always drains after you shut off your car...but there is still a film on the metal parts. Are you saying that the VTC actuator is causing the oil burning issue? That is my question.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: Churchill
I had a 2008 Accord that suffered from this flaw. When I brought it to the dealer to be fixed, the service writer told me that the timing chain tensioner would probably need to be replaced too. Unfortunately he was correct. The faulty VTC actuator causes oil starvation at cold start up. The lack of oil stresses the timing chain to the point that the tensioner eventually breaks. Another unpleasant side effect is piston ring wear. All of these cars burn oil. Sometimes as much as 1.5-2 qt per 1k miles. No need for an formal oil change at this point, the oil is always new! All that oil going out the exhaust is hitting the catalytic converter, which are not cheap.
Honda refused to acknowledge that they were at fault for anything.
I will never purchase any Honda product again.


Congrats on your 1st post by the way! So do you still own your 8th gen?

 

[Churchill]

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. There are thousands of other people that have experienced this. Some of them are mechanics (unlike me) and have posted very clear and easy to understand details of how this occurs. A small amount of searching will find these posts.

 

[Churchill]

Thank you.

No I do not still own my 8th Gen Accord. It was a terrible vehicle and one of the worst purchases that I ever made.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: Churchill
Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. There are thousands of other people that have experienced this. Some of them are mechanics (unlike me) and have posted very clear and easy to understand details of how this occurs. A small amount of searching will find these posts.


Hmmm, can't find these posts anywhere.

 

[dlayman]

Not saying other poster in the thread is wrong, but burning 1.5 to 2 quarts per 1000 miles I think you would see a lot of blue smoke. I don't think I've ever seen an accord less that 15-20 years old smoking. The cars with these engines still turn up consistently high reliability ratings and resale values. I don't think I would want to buy a car with this engine, because it sure sounds bad and would bug me big time and I think it has to be doing at least a little damage, but I can't imagine Honda would let this go on for eight years in several of their best selling cars if it was a serious flaw, and let it wreck their reputation.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I've personally never seen oil consumption as a bad thing (within reason, certainly). I used to own two Cadillac Northstars. I know about topping off oil! A previous post made light of never having to change oil because it's always fresh -- there is an element of truth to that, and a material benefit. As long as oil consumption isn't way out of line (like a quart every 500 miles or something), there are benefits to the engine of consuming some oil.

Witness the recent thread where the poster was tearing down a Saturn engine, well known for consuming oil. The cylinder walls still had the original honing marks. If you have good lubrication up top, you'll have very little engine wear. You obviously don't want blue smoke out your tailpipe, but a little consumption doesn't hurt anything.

Neither one of our Hondas consume any measurable oil, and I actually wouldn't mind it if they did!

 

[Churchill]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: Churchill
Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. There are thousands of other people that have experienced this. Some of them are mechanics (unlike me) and have posted very clear and easy to understand details of how this occurs. A small amount of searching will find these posts.


Hmmm, can't find these posts anywhere.


Well someone called "greg24" is posting like crazy about this topic on the 8th Gen Accord site. Keep looking in the thread "Engine - Rattles On Cold Start-Up". It's over 15 pages so it will take a while.

Also read the "Honda Extends Oil Consumption Warranty To 8 years / 125,000 miles" thread.

Why does the noise only happen at cold start up?

You already know the answer.

 

[Churchill]

Originally Posted By: dlayman
Not saying other poster in the thread is wrong, but burning 1.5 to 2 quarts per 1000 miles I think you would see a lot of blue smoke. I don't think I've ever seen an accord less that 15-20 years old smoking. The cars with these engines still turn up consistently high reliability ratings and resale values. I don't think I would want to buy a car with this engine, because it sure sounds bad and would bug me big time and I think it has to be doing at least a little damage, but I can't imagine Honda would let this go on for eight years in several of their best selling cars if it was a serious flaw, and let it wreck their reputation.


I don't understand their logic either. My 1996 Accord is still on the road with over 300K, so at one time Honda did make a high quality product. Needless to say my expectations for reliability were high.

The Accord is such a big selling vehicle, I would imagine that even small fixes are very expensive for the company.

What Honda failed to account for is the multiplier effect of ill-will generated as their defective cars are resold from person to person.

 

[Churchill]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I've personally never seen oil consumption as a bad thing (within reason, certainly). I used to own two Cadillac Northstars. I know about topping off oil! A previous post made light of never having to change oil because it's always fresh -- there is an element of truth to that, and a material benefit. As long as oil consumption isn't way out of line (like a quart every 500 miles or something), there are benefits to the engine of consuming some oil.

Witness the recent thread where the poster was tearing down a Saturn engine, well known for consuming oil. The cylinder walls still had the original honing marks. If you have good lubrication up top, you'll have very little engine wear. You obviously don't want blue smoke out your tailpipe, but a little consumption doesn't hurt anything.

Neither one of our Hondas consume any measurable oil, and I actually wouldn't mind it if they did!


Yes, adding even a quart of oil at every fill up at the gas station is not the end of the world.

However the 8th Gen Accord is a surprisingly large and roomy vehicle. In the 4 cylinder model you need full engine compression when merging on the highway. With more than one passenger and the air-conditioner running, having worn rings (and the associated loss of power) becomes a real problem.

Plus there is the added anxiety every year wondering if the oil-burner will pass emissions inspection.

Be glad your vehicles don't consume oil!

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: Churchill
I had a 2008 Accord that suffered from this flaw. When I brought it to the dealer to be fixed, the service writer told me that the timing chain tensioner would probably need to be replaced too. Unfortunately he was correct.


So you had your old one fixed at the dealer for the issue? Was it covered under warranty? Did the issue return before you sold it?

 

[Churchill]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Originally Posted By: Churchill
I had a 2008 Accord that suffered from this flaw. When I brought it to the dealer to be fixed, the service writer told me that the timing chain tensioner would probably need to be replaced too. Unfortunately he was correct.


So you had your old one fixed at the dealer for the issue? Was it covered under warranty? Did the issue return before you sold it?


2008 was the first model year and the problem did not start until ~50K.
The noise only occurs if the engine has been off for 6 hours or more so the dealer needs the vehicle overnight in order to verify the problem first hand. It was a pain to get a rental car and I didn't realize the damage being done, so I ignored it until ~70K.

Dealer said car the was now out of warranty (60K) and the Honda district service manager politely suggested that I attempt to reproduce myself with myself.

Some owners have had the part replaced several times. I always assumed it was a batch of bad parts, so it was just luck of the draw whether you got a good one and a permanent fix.

The problem is still happening on 2012's and Honda has halted fixing them until they figure out what is going on. So maybe the issue isn't defective VTC actuators but something in their engine design.