"danger" of blending M1 0W-40 & 0W-20 EP??

[dailydriver]

Many on here have stated that there WILL BE a problem with mixing these two Mobil 1 oils, due to their supposedly radically different detergent packs.

WHAT is the actual/REAL danger involved?
Do their DPs 'clash', or just render one another ineffective, raise TAN levels, or WHAT?

What is the worst case scenario for an OCI with these oils mixed in not even a 50/50 blend (like a 70/30 blend either way)?

I am asking SERIOUSLY for answers from those who REALLY know about these products (or even the tribologists on here, if they want to bother answering), and am NOT being confrontational, or sarcastic in asking this question.

The anti-mixers/blenders on here who do NOT offer an explanation/reasons against doing this need not waste their time/effort.

 

[CT8]

What is there to clash?

 

[Avery4]

I would not think that would cause a problem. However, it can be hard to get the desired viscosity blending. What exactly is the supposed reason? Worst case scenario depends on what exactly would clash. I would just buy whatever the desired viscosity is just to be safe. What exactly is your reason for mixing? I would ask Mobil.

 

[Shannow]

Have never seen any one state that there WILL be a problem, and would be interested to links where anyone has suggested same.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Have never seen any one state that there WILL be a problem, and would be interested to links where anyone has suggested same.


Meee tooo...

I've mixed M1 5W-20 EP & 0W-40 for the last two years in my '07 Grand Marquis, come spring it'll get another dose(this is why I'll never stock up again)... That'll be the last of those oils, from then on out it'll get 5W-30...

 

[userfriendly]

All the oil companies state the same disclaimer. If you add anything to the oil such as additives that promise improved performance, the oil is no longer our product. In short, if you alter the product, you own it and all certifications are void.
Edit; That includes engine manufactures' warranty.
Edit again; Your logical fallacy is?

 

[Pontual]

The "Danger" isn't much of a danger, IMO. What I'd envision is doing that in a engine that BURNS a some oil and IS PRONE TO DEPOSITS needing less ash deposits in cc or valves (like GDI), since the main difference in those oils, detergent pack considering is Calcium vs. Magnesium predominancy. Search Calcium vs. Magnesium as one being harder in ash deposits, than the other in such engine parts ...

 

[wemay]

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/283/testing-lubricants-companibility

Quote:
Available Procedures For Assessing Compatibility
Many of the procedures for determining fluid or lubricating oil compatibility are available and published in the Federal Standard 791C titled “Lubricants, Liquid Fuels, and Related Products; Methods of Testing.”2 Three such procedures in this Federal Standard are worthy of mention.

1. The first is Method 3470.1 titled “Homogeneity and Miscibility of Oils.” This test involves individually mixing a candidate oil or fluid with six other reference oils. These mixtures are then subjected to a series of heating and cooling cycles with most of the emphasis given to the cooling cycles because incompatibility becomes more pronounced at lower temperatures, as was evidenced in a recent SAE paper titled “Assessment of the Low-Temperature Incompatibility Risk of Commercial Engine Oils.”3 After repetitive heating and cooling cycles, any evidence of adverse reaction or separation such as a color change, the appearance of particles, individual layer formation, etc., constitutes an incompatibility.


The other methods involve gear lubricants.

Bold and color type added by me for emphasis.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Oil is not that expensive. Take the safe route, don't mix. Use it in your lawn mower.

 

[PandaBear]

It will work fine, but it will not be better than if you just use straight 0w30 EP because the molecule spread may not be optimal for durability (shear, volatility, etc).

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: wemay
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/283/testing-lubricants-companibility

Quote:
Available Procedures For Assessing Compatibility
Many of the procedures for determining fluid or lubricating oil compatibility are available and published in the Federal Standard 791C titled “Lubricants, Liquid Fuels, and Related Products; Methods of Testing.”2 Three such procedures in this Federal Standard are worthy of mention.

1. The first is Method 3470.1 titled “Homogeneity and Miscibility of Oils.” This test involves individually mixing a candidate oil or fluid with six other reference oils. These mixtures are then subjected to a series of heating and cooling cycles with most of the emphasis given to the cooling cycles because incompatibility becomes more pronounced at lower temperatures, as was evidenced in a recent SAE paper titled “Assessment of the Low-Temperature Incompatibility Risk of Commercial Engine Oils.”3 After repetitive heating and cooling cycles, any evidence of adverse reaction or separation such as a color change, the appearance of particles, individual layer formation, etc., constitutes an incompatibility.


The other methods involve gear lubricants.

Bold and color type added by me for emphasis.


Both oils dailydriver wants to mix is 0w, I highly doubt they will be "low temperature incompatible". It is not mixing 20w50 dino with 0w20 synthetic.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Have never seen any one state that there WILL be a problem, and would be interested to links where anyone has suggested same.

Someone posted a while ago of potential clash of base stock or additives when I mentioned that I will mix M1 0W40 with 0W20 EP to get HTHS around 3.3-3.4. He suggested mixing M1 0W40 with 0W20 AFE.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Both oils dailydriver wants to mix is 0w, I highly doubt they will be "low temperature incompatible". It is not mixing 20w50 dino with 0w20 synthetic.


The particular failure that prompted the article was two 10W30s mixed that caused the whole mix to become gel at reasonably high ambient temperatures, and caused considerable engine damage across a fleet.

Mixing two 0Ws does not guarantee a 0W outcome, nor necessarily an oil that has the predicted KV100/HTHS, nor even meets SN/SM, whatever they happen to be.

Not saying, and never have said that mixing (it's not "blending", that's what blenders do) will automatically cause "problems", nor that they are going to lead to a pile of failed engines, but it's not as predictable as some mixers would have people believe.

 

[wemay]

Shannow. +1

 

[Nate1979]

Who on this site has said it WILL cause a problem? Post the link to the post. I doubt they knew what they were talking about.

In the end only Mobil knows. The rest is pure speculation.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

For cold test, one can freeze your test mixture overnight at zero degrees fahrenheit in your own home freezer. Then check viscosity using:

If you don't have one of those to compare against other known non-mixed pure oils you have, then just pour out identically of course over a flat surface and time how long it takes to run down the slope.

Usually its fine to blend oils made by the same company.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
For cold test, one can freeze your test mixture overnight at zero degrees fahrenheit in your own home freezer. Then check viscosity using:

If you don't have one of those to compare against other known non-mixed pure oils you have, then just pour out identically of course over a flat surface and time how long it takes to run down the slope.

Usually its fine to blend oils made by the same company.


I don't think either of those qualifies as an MRV or CCS...

Anyway, here's SOPUS' view of blending their own products...

Quote:
The physical results may be very much as you expect i.e. viscosity is likely to be predictable following well known physical laws however the chemical effects are highly unpredictable. Wear performance is not dictated solely by the amount of wear protecting additives in an oil, the efficacy (effectiveness) of the additives must also be considered. Efficacy can be negatively impacted by changing the balance of a formulation package. The approach you suggest could conceivably result in poorer performance, I would recommend choosing a single tier of product, and Pennzoil Platinum has been designed to offer complete protection including unsurpassed wear performance.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I don't think either of those qualifies as an MRV or CCS...

You get the idea. You time the ball falling to the bottom for your mixture and each of your 2 oils you're mixing. It will show if the cold viscosity is between the two mixed oils.
If starting below zero degrees F outside, then maybe VII interaction might occur.

Pennzoil makes the obvious good points about chemical clashing.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus


Pennzoil makes the obvious good points about chemical clashing.


Absolutely

Originally Posted By: Shannow


Anyway, here's SOPUS' view of blending their own products...

"The physical results may be very much as you expect i.e. viscosity is likely to be predictable following well known physical laws however the chemical effects are highly unpredictable. Wear performance is not dictated solely by the amount of wear protecting additives in an oil, the efficacy (effectiveness) of the additives must also be considered. Efficacy can be negatively impacted by changing the balance of a formulation package. The approach you suggest could conceivably result in poorer performance, I would recommend choosing a single tier of product, and Pennzoil Platinum has been designed to offer complete protection including unsurpassed wear performance."

 

[camrydriver111]

You could do a BITOG kitchen oil experiment.

Take half a cup of one oil, half a cup of the other, mix them in. Freeze them in the freezer, along with control oil, and see how easy they pour out.

Then set your oven to 120 degrees Celsius and stick the cups in there to see if there is there is any thickening. You might want to get metal tongs, and pour the oil out while it's hot.

That should give you a lot of information about how the oil will behave inside your engine.