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Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: The_Eric] #3900945
10/29/15 09:46 AM
10/29/15 09:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,755
Rijeka, EU
chrisri Offline
chrisri  Offline
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,755
Rijeka, EU
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
As for me, I would have used a bigger torch (cutting tip like Trav mentioned) or- I have found that with REALLY stuck things that an air hammer or press won't budge, a REALLY big hammer will almost always work. In this case here, I may have put everything on a steel plate on the floor, lined all the parts up perfectly and given it a massive smack with a sledge. Done properly, the massive force will go directly to breaking the rust bond loose and pushing the bearing down a fuzz. You can then either finish with the press for a more controlled removal or continue to work your aggression out with the sledge.

I also have used a different press plate to install the new bearing. As was mentioned earlier, the one he used was too small, so he was pressing against the seal and inner race. When possible, I'll use the old bearing or race to press with.


This ^^, and a 50 tonnes press. That small one is good for small cars, but for anything larger 50 tonnes press is a more elegant solution.


02 Nissan Terrano 2.7.TDi Motul 15w40
06 FIAT Stilo MW 1.9 Multijet SHU 5w40
07 Opel Vectra SW 1.9 CDTI 150 MST 5w40
Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: camrydriver111] #3901055
10/29/15 11:13 AM
10/29/15 11:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,392
beaver land EH?
Quest Offline
Quest  Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,392
beaver land EH?
@ Trav,

All the methods that you and many other experienced mechs sound. Fact is, there's no fast and true rule RE: how to deal with this situation, while some of them are definitely valid, some of the remarks are just a bit silly (not from you seasoned guys of course).

Given the time constraints (most of these jobs are paid by the hour), it's best to just hit it with a torch with cutoff tip. I would pretty much do the same thing too (although I would try to first get a smaller die grinder to cut as deep of a groove on the bearing race first before heating it up and then quickly dunk it in a bucket of used ATF (which I have in the corner of my garage all the time) in hopes that the sudden thermal shock would (a) crack the bearing race due to contraction; and if not, at least (b) the ATF would seep into the rusty cavity between the hub and the race part, which then I would try to press it out and see if it budge.

repeat that process a few more times (heat and then dunk), and then try striking the race with a cold chisel....The hardest job I had with similar situation was a car from Dakota, took me 3 dunks and a very, very deep groove before the bearing race cracked and was able to break free afterwards.

Mechs are usually very smart ones which can pretty much improvise to get the job done. Some of the tricks used would literally scare the amateurs away, but so long as the methodology sound, I can't see why it cannot be done.

Q.

p.s. 50t press would be good to have also in this case, but that does not guarantee that the rust-fused bearing race would budge at all, if not soaked sufficiently with lube first..... (my subjective experience).


"Internet discussion boards act as echo chambers for conspiracy dittoheads" A.Allen
Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: chrisri] #3901199
10/29/15 02:07 PM
10/29/15 02:07 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 101
Sweden
PierreR Offline
PierreR  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 101
Sweden
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
As for me, I would have used a bigger torch (cutting tip like Trav mentioned) or- I have found that with REALLY stuck things that an air hammer or press won't budge, a REALLY big hammer will almost always work. In this case here, I may have put everything on a steel plate on the floor, lined all the parts up perfectly and given it a massive smack with a sledge. Done properly, the massive force will go directly to breaking the rust bond loose and pushing the bearing down a fuzz. You can then either finish with the press for a more controlled removal or continue to work your aggression out with the sledge.

I also have used a different press plate to install the new bearing. As was mentioned earlier, the one he used was too small, so he was pressing against the seal and inner race. When possible, I'll use the old bearing or race to press with.


This ^^, and a 50 tonnes press. That small one is good for small cars, but for anything larger 50 tonnes press is a more elegant solution.


Sometimes 50 tonnes are to small.
At work we have one that is 100ton and sometimes things are so stuck that even that wont make them move.

Earlier this year i was replacing the front brakerotors on a Volvo truck, on this model the rotor is just bolted to the bearinghub with 10 or 12 M14 bolts. So you just have to remove them and slide the wheelhub + rotor off and then separeate the rotor from the hub.
Sounds easy right? The wheelhub was the only thing that let go with a hard hit from a sledge.
Removing the rotor from the bearing was a different story.
Tried beating on the rotor in several different places to make it loose and nothing happend. Removed the axlenut that holds everything in place and remove the bearing + rotor and take it to the press.
I put about 80 tonns of pressure on it to try to get it loose and nothing happend.
Tried hitting it with a sledge while there was pressure on it make it start to move, still nothing.
I then gave up and took it to a workbench where i had to split the rotor with the biggest anglegrinder we have (it uses 230mm discs)
20 minutes with that and the bearing was finally free so i could start to put everything back together again.
Rust is a *****

Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: Quest] #3901330
10/29/15 04:08 PM
10/29/15 04:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,765
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,765
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Quest
@ Trav,

All the methods that you and many other experienced mechs sound. Fact is, there's no fast and true rule RE: how to deal with this situation, while some of them are definitely valid, some of the remarks are just a bit silly (not from you seasoned guys of course).

Given the time constraints (most of these jobs are paid by the hour), it's best to just hit it with a torch with cutoff tip. I would pretty much do the same thing too (although I would try to first get a smaller die grinder to cut as deep of a groove on the bearing race first before heating it up and then quickly dunk it in a bucket of used ATF (which I have in the corner of my garage all the time) in hopes that the sudden thermal shock would (a) crack the bearing race due to contraction; and if not, at least (b) the ATF would seep into the rusty cavity between the hub and the race part, which then I would try to press it out and see if it budge.

repeat that process a few more times (heat and then dunk), and then try striking the race with a cold chisel....The hardest job I had with similar situation was a car from Dakota, took me 3 dunks and a very, very deep groove before the bearing race cracked and was able to break free afterwards.

Mechs are usually very smart ones which can pretty much improvise to get the job done. Some of the tricks used would literally scare the amateurs away, but so long as the methodology sound, I can't see why it cannot be done.

Q.

p.s. 50t press would be good to have also in this case, but that does not guarantee that the rust-fused bearing race would budge at all, if not soaked sufficiently with lube first..... (my subjective experience).


All good inputs, thanks to you, Eric and others for putting their ideas.
I have knocked the bearings out leaving just the outer race and cut almost all the way through with a sawsall before throwing it in the press or splitting it with a chisel. Rust is a nightmare.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: camrydriver111] #3901371
10/29/15 05:07 PM
10/29/15 05:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,392
beaver land EH?
Quest Offline
Quest  Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,392
beaver land EH?
On a slightly different subject: recently I did a balljoint replacements on a 05 solara (on both sides), where I have to pull off the entire hub to gain full access to the ball joint nut, but it was rusted/fused so badly that neither a bit of heat nor soaking in spray lube would budge. Short of doing it with a pitchfork (which I personally do not like, due to personal reasons), I tried it with a HF balljoint separator tool similar to this:

http://www.forcetools-kepmar.eu/WT-62805H-Hydraulic-Ball-Joint-Separator-8-Ton

The end-screw part came with a small piston, where when you crank the big end of the piston screw bore, hydraulic pressure would build up on the end small piston which pivots the lever and pushes the ball joint out....

It's been discontinued @ HF and I bought it off cheep (for around 20% of what the normal sticker price sez), so compressed the piston screw while giving the side of the control arm a couple of medium wacks and voila! It broke free!

BTW: imagine 8t worth of pressure on the ball joint..... *grin*

Q.


"Internet discussion boards act as echo chambers for conspiracy dittoheads" A.Allen
Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: Quest] #3901904
10/30/15 06:25 AM
10/30/15 06:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,765
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,765
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I like that hydraulic separator, i have a nut splitter that uses the same principal. For that money i will look into getting one.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: camrydriver111] #3902019
10/30/15 08:47 AM
10/30/15 08:47 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,577
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
zzyzzx Offline
zzyzzx  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,577
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
I gotta get one of those air hammers!

How does he know that it wasn't the bad brakes that was causing the noise?

Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: camrydriver111] #3902023
10/30/15 08:50 AM
10/30/15 08:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,043
Central NY
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,043
Central NY
Press in bearings are asinine.

I can't wait to have this problem on the Focus ... not


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep XJ
01 F-350 4x4 5M
Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: Miller88] #3902126
10/30/15 10:59 AM
10/30/15 10:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,756
Massachusetts
turtlevette Offline
turtlevette  Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,756
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Press in bearings are asinine.


There is a long standing argument on the corvette forum about converting bearings to slip on by lightly sanding and polishing spindles. Many of us have a lot of miles racked up using slip fit. The shop owners on the forum hate this because they get thousands to press the bearings on. GM had slip fit bearing setups on the earlier models.


USA-1
Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: zzyzzx] #3902173
10/30/15 12:22 PM
10/30/15 12:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 408
Cincinnati
quint Offline
quint  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 408
Cincinnati
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
How does he know that it wasn't the bad brakes that was causing the noise?

You know, I was kind of wondering the same thing when I first started watching the video....

I cant imagine he put the brakes back on the way they were, after replacing the bearing, then going out for a drive like that. Maybe he did, who knows.

My Sequoia was groaning during a back and forth 'slalom' type move like he was doing while he was driving, and while I suspected a bearing issue, it ended up being the brakes. The bearing was tight with no play just like in this video and after the brakes were replaced, no more noise.

On the other hand, my Corolla did have a bad bearing that was groaning that also was tight with no play. So, it can go both ways.


1993 240sx convertible
2001 Sequoia
2012 Mazda 2
2012 Mazda 3 Totaled 3/16/18, R.I.P
2017 Mazda 3
2017 Kia Rio
Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: zzyzzx] #3902179
10/30/15 12:31 PM
10/30/15 12:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,392
beaver land EH?
Quest Offline
Quest  Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,392
beaver land EH?
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
I gotta get one of those air hammers!

How does he know that it wasn't the bad brakes that was causing the noise?


It's based on mech's experience, and good hearing (+ proper diagnostic understanding).

Q.


"Internet discussion boards act as echo chambers for conspiracy dittoheads" A.Allen
Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: camrydriver111] #3902263
10/30/15 02:20 PM
10/30/15 02:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 161
Tn
aualtima3.5 Offline
aualtima3.5  Offline
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 161
Tn
I would have wanted a new knuckle after seeing that. Crack propagation, anyone?

Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: zzyzzx] #3902264
10/30/15 02:20 PM
10/30/15 02:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,765
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,765
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
I gotta get one of those air hammers!


One of the most valuable tools you can own, it can do a lot of jobs you never thought of with the right attachments, but it has to be a powerful one.
Inside muffler/pipe cutter, outside muffler/pipe cutter, tapered punches, long and short hammer heads, rusted brake bleeder tool, U joint tool, different chisels, etc.

The best add on for the hammer i bought was the quick change holder that replaces the spring. I use a long barrel CP717 hammer that has amazing power but its pricey, they make an off shore one that comes with quick change adapter and chisels for short money but its a good hammer. Its no 717 but its not $500+ either.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0016JZ1NA/?tag...sl_7sn5hyqeoh_b

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B005XOJP04/ezvid02-20

https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-air-hammers



ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: camrydriver111] #3902288
10/30/15 02:43 PM
10/30/15 02:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,392
beaver land EH?
Quest Offline
Quest  Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,392
beaver land EH?
Thanks for sharing, Trav.

Yeah, I fully concur that a good quality air hammer worth gold (esp. these days where market is littered with garbage).

Makes life so much easier.

Q.


"Internet discussion boards act as echo chambers for conspiracy dittoheads" A.Allen
Re: ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing [Re: camrydriver111] #3903100
10/31/15 03:24 PM
10/31/15 03:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,226
Lakeville, MN
MNgopher Offline
MNgopher  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,226
Lakeville, MN
In regards to how did he know it was a wheel bearing and not the brakes? One answer is on these explorers this is a common problem. When the Explorer went to IRS, these type of rear bearings were used through the 2010 models.

I looked at what it would take to do mine on my '07 Explorer, and decided this one was worth paying the shop to do. As it turned out, the first replacement didn't make it a year before it failed under warranty, so the shop got to eat the whole thing again.

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