ETCG goes gorilla on a wheel bearing

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I don't like the way he cut into that knuckle bore with the die grinder. I think he could've skipped the die grinder and pushed the bearing pieces out with the chisel. If it was my car, I'd want a new left rear knuckle.
 
He did fine, that's a bugger of a job. I wouldn't worry about the cuts and scars in the knuckle too much, its almost inevitable when you have to resort to such measures.
The only thing i would have done differently is to use the cutting torch tip on it while it was under some pressure.

You don't pull the trigger on the torch to cut its just a really big intense flame. Heat up all around it without letting the pressure off to turn it around.
In my experience (i have done a lot of this type over the last 43 years) it would probably have let go. The tip he was using was nowhere near big enough or the part not hot enough.

Its easy to Monday morning QB the guy but when your in the middle of that sort of $hit job your beside yourself. Kudos to him, he got the job done.
 
I never really paid much attention to ETCG threads or videos, but I watched this one for whatever reason and when he walked into the Advance auto parts I recognized the phone number on the front. I pass about a block away from there every day on the way home from work, even bought a few parts there recently. I had no idea I am right down the street from his shop!

I have had knuckles get boogered up with scrapes and nicks from being chiseled or hammered on, none of them have been a problem. I've had a few that looked downright awful. It doesn't look pretty but its really not a big deal, never had a problem with any of them.
 
I luv watching remarks from posters on this round of ETCG postings, for I can usually tell how mechanically-competent these posters are, based on their remarks/comments.
*laughs*

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
What would you have done differently?


People think this stuff gets done in some high tech clean room. The first time I had a guy do my half shafts on the vette he beat the holy heck out of them with a sledge.

I decided I could do that myself the next time. I like sanding and polishing bores of bearing housings, spindles and u joints to make press fits a little less brutal for the next time. You don't need that much interference fit to retain a bearing especially when there is a snap ring or bolt with cotter pin holding things together.
 
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I wasn't being sarcastic Q just a probing question, i said what i would have done differently just wondering what others would do differently. There is more than one or two ways to do a job.
A good tradesman is always looking for a easier or better way to do something. I try to help someone out of a jam and learn something new or different every day.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Trav
What would you have done differently?


People think this stuff gets done in some high tech clean room. The first time I had a guy do my half shafts on the vette he beat the holy heck out of them with a sledge.

I decided I could do that myself the next time. I like sanding and polishing bores of bearing housings, spindles and u joints to make press fits a little less brutal for the next time. You don't need that much interference fit to retain a bearing especially when there is a snap ring or bolt with cotter pin holding things together.




I'm not saying it applies in this particular situation, but the amount of interference on a bearing isn't always for retention. It also affects the internal clearance of the bearing. Example: depending on the fit- C3 or C4, bearing crush is very, very important or just very important on 2 cycle crankcase bearings- which are similar in design to the bearing Eric was pressing in. In some cases a half a thou can mean the difference between 10k trouble free miles and seizing the bearing in a thousand or less.
 
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As for me, I would have used a bigger torch (cutting tip like Trav mentioned) or- I have found that with REALLY stuck things that an air hammer or press won't budge, a REALLY big hammer will almost always work. In this case here, I may have put everything on a steel plate on the floor, lined all the parts up perfectly and given it a massive smack with a sledge. Done properly, the massive force will go directly to breaking the rust bond loose and pushing the bearing down a fuzz. You can then either finish with the press for a more controlled removal or continue to work your aggression out with the sledge.

I also have used a different press plate to install the new bearing. As was mentioned earlier, the one he used was too small, so he was pressing against the seal and inner race. When possible, I'll use the old bearing or race to press with.
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
As for me, I would have used a bigger torch (cutting tip like Trav mentioned) or- I have found that with REALLY stuck things that an air hammer or press won't budge, a REALLY big hammer will almost always work. In this case here, I may have put everything on a steel plate on the floor, lined all the parts up perfectly and given it a massive smack with a sledge. Done properly, the massive force will go directly to breaking the rust bond loose and pushing the bearing down a fuzz. You can then either finish with the press for a more controlled removal or continue to work your aggression out with the sledge.

I also have used a different press plate to install the new bearing. As was mentioned earlier, the one he used was too small, so he was pressing against the seal and inner race. When possible, I'll use the old bearing or race to press with.


This ^^, and a 50 tonnes press. That small one is good for small cars, but for anything larger 50 tonnes press is a more elegant solution.
 
@ Trav,

All the methods that you and many other experienced mechs sound. Fact is, there's no fast and true rule RE: how to deal with this situation, while some of them are definitely valid, some of the remarks are just a bit silly (not from you seasoned guys of course).

Given the time constraints (most of these jobs are paid by the hour), it's best to just hit it with a torch with cutoff tip. I would pretty much do the same thing too (although I would try to first get a smaller die grinder to cut as deep of a groove on the bearing race first before heating it up and then quickly dunk it in a bucket of used ATF (which I have in the corner of my garage all the time) in hopes that the sudden thermal shock would (a) crack the bearing race due to contraction; and if not, at least (b) the ATF would seep into the rusty cavity between the hub and the race part, which then I would try to press it out and see if it budge.

repeat that process a few more times (heat and then dunk), and then try striking the race with a cold chisel....The hardest job I had with similar situation was a car from Dakota, took me 3 dunks and a very, very deep groove before the bearing race cracked and was able to break free afterwards.

Mechs are usually very smart ones which can pretty much improvise to get the job done. Some of the tricks used would literally scare the amateurs away, but so long as the methodology sound, I can't see why it cannot be done.

Q.

p.s. 50t press would be good to have also in this case, but that does not guarantee that the rust-fused bearing race would budge at all, if not soaked sufficiently with lube first..... (my subjective experience).
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
As for me, I would have used a bigger torch (cutting tip like Trav mentioned) or- I have found that with REALLY stuck things that an air hammer or press won't budge, a REALLY big hammer will almost always work. In this case here, I may have put everything on a steel plate on the floor, lined all the parts up perfectly and given it a massive smack with a sledge. Done properly, the massive force will go directly to breaking the rust bond loose and pushing the bearing down a fuzz. You can then either finish with the press for a more controlled removal or continue to work your aggression out with the sledge.

I also have used a different press plate to install the new bearing. As was mentioned earlier, the one he used was too small, so he was pressing against the seal and inner race. When possible, I'll use the old bearing or race to press with.


This ^^, and a 50 tonnes press. That small one is good for small cars, but for anything larger 50 tonnes press is a more elegant solution.


Sometimes 50 tonnes are to small.
At work we have one that is 100ton and sometimes things are so stuck that even that wont make them move.

Earlier this year i was replacing the front brakerotors on a Volvo truck, on this model the rotor is just bolted to the bearinghub with 10 or 12 M14 bolts. So you just have to remove them and slide the wheelhub + rotor off and then separeate the rotor from the hub.
Sounds easy right? The wheelhub was the only thing that let go with a hard hit from a sledge.
Removing the rotor from the bearing was a different story.
Tried beating on the rotor in several different places to make it loose and nothing happend. Removed the axlenut that holds everything in place and remove the bearing + rotor and take it to the press.
I put about 80 tonns of pressure on it to try to get it loose and nothing happend.
Tried hitting it with a sledge while there was pressure on it make it start to move, still nothing.
I then gave up and took it to a workbench where i had to split the rotor with the biggest anglegrinder we have (it uses 230mm discs)
20 minutes with that and the bearing was finally free so i could start to put everything back together again.
Rust is a *****
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
@ Trav,

All the methods that you and many other experienced mechs sound. Fact is, there's no fast and true rule RE: how to deal with this situation, while some of them are definitely valid, some of the remarks are just a bit silly (not from you seasoned guys of course).

Given the time constraints (most of these jobs are paid by the hour), it's best to just hit it with a torch with cutoff tip. I would pretty much do the same thing too (although I would try to first get a smaller die grinder to cut as deep of a groove on the bearing race first before heating it up and then quickly dunk it in a bucket of used ATF (which I have in the corner of my garage all the time) in hopes that the sudden thermal shock would (a) crack the bearing race due to contraction; and if not, at least (b) the ATF would seep into the rusty cavity between the hub and the race part, which then I would try to press it out and see if it budge.

repeat that process a few more times (heat and then dunk), and then try striking the race with a cold chisel....The hardest job I had with similar situation was a car from Dakota, took me 3 dunks and a very, very deep groove before the bearing race cracked and was able to break free afterwards.

Mechs are usually very smart ones which can pretty much improvise to get the job done. Some of the tricks used would literally scare the amateurs away, but so long as the methodology sound, I can't see why it cannot be done.

Q.

p.s. 50t press would be good to have also in this case, but that does not guarantee that the rust-fused bearing race would budge at all, if not soaked sufficiently with lube first..... (my subjective experience).


All good inputs, thanks to you, Eric and others for putting their ideas.
I have knocked the bearings out leaving just the outer race and cut almost all the way through with a sawsall before throwing it in the press or splitting it with a chisel. Rust is a nightmare.
 
On a slightly different subject: recently I did a balljoint replacements on a 05 solara (on both sides), where I have to pull off the entire hub to gain full access to the ball joint nut, but it was rusted/fused so badly that neither a bit of heat nor soaking in spray lube would budge. Short of doing it with a pitchfork (which I personally do not like, due to personal reasons), I tried it with a HF balljoint separator tool similar to this:

http://www.forcetools-kepmar.eu/WT-62805H-Hydraulic-Ball-Joint-Separator-8-Ton

The end-screw part came with a small piston, where when you crank the big end of the piston screw bore, hydraulic pressure would build up on the end small piston which pivots the lever and pushes the ball joint out....

It's been discontinued @ HF and I bought it off cheep (for around 20% of what the normal sticker price sez), so compressed the piston screw while giving the side of the control arm a couple of medium wacks and voila! It broke free!

BTW: imagine 8t worth of pressure on the ball joint..... *grin*

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Press in bearings are asinine.


There is a long standing argument on the corvette forum about converting bearings to slip on by lightly sanding and polishing spindles. Many of us have a lot of miles racked up using slip fit. The shop owners on the forum hate this because they get thousands to press the bearings on. GM had slip fit bearing setups on the earlier models.
 
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
How does he know that it wasn't the bad brakes that was causing the noise?

You know, I was kind of wondering the same thing when I first started watching the video....

I cant imagine he put the brakes back on the way they were, after replacing the bearing, then going out for a drive like that. Maybe he did, who knows.

My Sequoia was groaning during a back and forth 'slalom' type move like he was doing while he was driving, and while I suspected a bearing issue, it ended up being the brakes. The bearing was tight with no play just like in this video and after the brakes were replaced, no more noise.

On the other hand, my Corolla did have a bad bearing that was groaning that also was tight with no play. So, it can go both ways.
 
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