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Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3844681 09/06/15 01:47 PM
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dlayman Offline
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All the reliability data I've seen for cars using this engine indicate the engine has excellent reliability, so I think you're right about it not causing a lot of damage. I think the main danger would be if the actuator actually failed. My understanding of how the piece functions, is that it could cause damage similar to if a timing belt broke on an interference engine.

Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3846514 09/08/15 09:51 AM
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Hounds Offline
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I wasn't going to comment on this thread until I came to a post above which linked a four or five-year post on another board (driveaccord.net) in which that poster (Rattmann) claimed this issue destroyed his Accord engine.

Suffice it to say "Rattmann" had little credibility on the Accord board. He also had a long history of abusing his Honda Accord, and he finally succeeded in destroying his engine. He claimed it was related to the VTC actuator, and Honda handled it as a warranty issue.

Returning to the issue at hand, as noted above, for several years Honda authorized VTC repairs. That apparently is no longer the case. There are several reasons for this, the principal ones being the repair took hours, and more importantly, the repair procedure required extreme care in re-aligning the VTC system. If that wasn't done, the "repair" would fail within "x" number of miles, and the problem would recur. (This happened so many times, in fact, that Honda issued a second video which discussed only the mistakes being made in aligning the VTC mechanism.)

Honda now insists the repair previously authorized is unnecessary. Yes, it is noisy -- it does sound terrible -- but, again, Honda now insists it will not result in any additional mechanical issues. Only time will tell.

As for how the system operates and why various "work arounds" MAY avoid the frequency of the grinding sound, this goes back to the how the system is designed to work. (There are several excellent YouTube videos that demonstrate how the system works, and I'll leave it those who are really interested in the subject to hunt them up.) Yes, the system works on oil pressure, but -- as reflected in the videos -- the initial "setting" of the VTC system is electrical: An electrical impulse "re-sets" the VTC actuator to the start position. This MAY explain why keying the system initially before trying to start the engine mitigates the problem. Namely, the VTC system is reset by keying it once before actually starting the engine. In this regard, FWIW, for YEARS I have been turning the ignition key to the start position on several Hondas (Civics Accords and CR-Vs), waiting several seconds for the dash lights to cycle (2 seconds or so) -- which also allows the VTC actuator to return to the start position -- before I engage the starter. In other words, I do not "bump" the starter as others have described. It may be pure luck, but I've only experienced the issue once, five years ago. That single incident is what took me online where all of this is laid out in great detail.

Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: Hounds] #3849785 09/10/15 08:47 PM
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gregk24 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Hounds
I wasn't going to comment on this thread until I came to a post above which linked a four or five-year post on another board (driveaccord.net) in which that poster (Rattmann) claimed this issue destroyed his Accord engine.

Suffice it to say "Rattmann" had little credibility on the Accord board. He also had a long history of abusing his Honda Accord, and he finally succeeded in destroying his engine. He claimed it was related to the VTC actuator, and Honda handled it as a warranty issue.

Returning to the issue at hand, as noted above, for several years Honda authorized VTC repairs. That apparently is no longer the case. There are several reasons for this, the principal ones being the repair took hours, and more importantly, the repair procedure required extreme care in re-aligning the VTC system. If that wasn't done, the "repair" would fail within "x" number of miles, and the problem would recur. (This happened so many times, in fact, that Honda issued a second video which discussed only the mistakes being made in aligning the VTC mechanism.)

Honda now insists the repair previously authorized is unnecessary. Yes, it is noisy -- it does sound terrible -- but, again, Honda now insists it will not result in any additional mechanical issues. Only time will tell.

As for how the system operates and why various "work arounds" MAY avoid the frequency of the grinding sound, this goes back to the how the system is designed to work. (There are several excellent YouTube videos that demonstrate how the system works, and I'll leave it those who are really interested in the subject to hunt them up.) Yes, the system works on oil pressure, but -- as reflected in the videos -- the initial "setting" of the VTC system is electrical: An electrical impulse "re-sets" the VTC actuator to the start position. This MAY explain why keying the system initially before trying to start the engine mitigates the problem. Namely, the VTC system is reset by keying it once before actually starting the engine. In this regard, FWIW, for YEARS I have been turning the ignition key to the start position on several Hondas (Civics Accords and CR-Vs), waiting several seconds for the dash lights to cycle (2 seconds or so) -- which also allows the VTC actuator to return to the start position -- before I engage the starter. In other words, I do not "bump" the starter as others have described. It may be pure luck, but I've only experienced the issue once, five years ago. That single incident is what took me online where all of this is laid out in great detail.


Interesting...I will try this key trick and see if the noise goes away. Do you not have problems in the cold of winter either?


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
59,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
51,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3850255 09/11/15 09:04 AM
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Hounds Offline
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Originally Posted By: gregk24
. . .I will try this key trick and see if the noise goes away. Do you not have problems in the cold of winter either?


I'm not sure "trick" is the right word. It's more a matter of patience; waiting until the dash lights have finished sequencing before engaging the starter. I only experienced this problem once.

However, as discussed in the video linked below, once the VTC actuator pin is bent to the extent that it cannot engage properly -- and you'll know that if the actuator grinds virtually every time you start your engine -- the only fix for that is to repair the actuator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTnufuKpp6c&feature=player_embedded

Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3850442 09/11/15 11:51 AM
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Danh Offline
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Mazda had this issue with the 2.0 engine in its Mx5. Unlike Honda, Mazda issued a TSB and replaced the VTC actuator whenever there was a start-up noise. As implied here, the noise was caused by the pins in the VTC not engaging promptly.

I had this done and it seems to have been a durable repair. Don't know why Honda's system is so much fussier. Or maybe it isn't...

Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3854218 09/14/15 08:54 PM
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gregk24 Offline OP
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Well I have been doing the key "trick" or whatever you want to call it, and so far...NO START UP RATTLE! I am almost in disbelief that something this simple could cure such a widespread issue. I am hoping that this will permanently fix my issue. We will see what the winter months hold.


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
59,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
51,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3854244 09/14/15 09:22 PM
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dishdude Online Content
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So doing the key dance resets the actuator valve to it's correct starting position? It sounds like a firmware update to the ECU could be the fix.


2018 Challenger SRT 392 PUP 0w-40 Wix 57899XP
2018 GTI M1 Euro 0w-40 Wix WL10024
2019 Tiguan
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: dishdude] #3854434 09/15/15 06:13 AM
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gregk24 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dishdude
So doing the key dance resets the actuator valve to it's correct starting position? It sounds like a firmware update to the ECU could be the fix.


Honda has known about this issue since 2008...I just don't know why they haven't rolled out a fix if this key trick really works.


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
59,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
51,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
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