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Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: DeepFriar] #3834643 08/26/15 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
I am not a Honda hater, far from it, Lord knows we have enough of them in the family and have for over 30 years. But quality has been slipping for some time now. Interestingly last year, I saw where two former Honda CEO's went to the current CEO to say that he is not minding the quality issue and it is hurting the "brand".

In Japan, this...is...simply...not...done. And they weren't there to just talk about the Takata airbag issue. Well it seems this has begun a round of musical chairs in the executive suite since then with the latest guy lasting one month before yet another guy has now taken over.

I had always hoped that Honda was "different" and indeed their quality always bore that hope out until lately. These cycles happen from time to time. I recall over ten years ago Toyota went through this "why do we make windshield wiper motors that last 20 years?" phase and then started sweating parts count along with their suppliers. Quality went to pot and it has taken awhile to get back to "normal" (still not as overbuilt as before). Looks like Honda has gone through that cycle and are trying to find their way back now.

This new guy makes nice sounds but it doesn't sound to me as though he is the answer either. Soichiro Honda reportedly said that Honda was an engine company that made cars. And that's where the precision came from for the cars he wrapped around them. They better get in gear because, as a small company, relatively speaking, their reputation for excellence is all that keeps them going. We need look no further than SAAB and Volvo for damaged brands that prove the theory.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20141112...quality-recalls

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150713/OEM02/307139949/ceo-hachigo-taking-honda-back-to-basics


Right on, Honda/Acura has been on cruise control for too long, turning a blind eye to quality control and innovation with a "we're still on top" mentality.


2018 Elantra Sport DCT

2004 Honda Element EX AWD
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3834670 08/26/15 10:35 PM
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rationull Offline
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If this is caused by the VTC actuation oil pressure bleeding down over time, then why would jump starting or turning the key on and then back off again before starting do anything to affect the condition?

Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: rationull] #3834971 08/27/15 08:44 AM
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dlayman Offline
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http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/51-8th-generation/47065-i4-vtc-actuator-3.html

Apparently, if this gets bad enough it can and has destroyed some engines according to the above posting.

Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3835171 08/27/15 11:28 AM
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gregk24 Offline OP
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Does anyone know if this impedes oil flow to the mentioned and chain causing slack on start up?


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
59,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
51,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3835174 08/27/15 11:30 AM
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gregk24 Offline OP
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Also, mine isn't as loud as some of the videos you hear on you tube. But it's still there. It is intermitant so hopefully the dealer will hear it and address the issue.


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
59,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
51,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3842278 09/03/15 08:35 PM
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gregk24 Offline OP
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Well I got my car back from the dealer this evening. I had the brakes flushed, the tires rotated, and the noise (VTC noise) issue looked at. The dealership actually admitted to hearing the noise! In the paperwork they said that they heard a "rattle" on start up, and that it sounded like it was a rattle from the VTC actuator, and that Honda has asked them to wait for further instructions on the fix for this problem. I am glad the issue was acknowledge and then documented. They also referenced TSB 09-010. So at least it was documented, I hope and pray that Honda will come up with a permanent fix for this issue, and that my car will be included in the fix.
Futher info: the dealer left a message on my cell earlier in the day that the car was ready. I listened to the message and he mentioned the TSB and said that with this engine its important to use a good oil and change it frequently to keep the engine clean and sludge free so the VTC / chain tensioner will live longer and help prevent more engine damage. Little did he know I am a BITOG member and am already obsessive about changing my oil. Guess I will stick to PPPP at 5K/6 months or slightly less with a Fram Ultra every other OCI to keep things clean!


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
59,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
51,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3842549 09/04/15 07:49 AM
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dlayman Offline
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Have you tried the "key on, key off, start" sequence that seems to help a lot of people. A pain in the butt, but might make sense as a way to minimize potential damage (if there is any) until or if a fix is found. This problem existing for seven years now and no fix is astounding. Even more astounding is how widespread this is, and yet very little publicity. Its all over the place in Accord, CRV and somewhat in Civic Si forums, but nothing in the general press. Consumer Reports, where are you? You called out a lot of makers for oil consumption and slapped Honda for cheapening the 2012 Civic and that was enough for them to redo the model in one year.

Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: dlayman] #3843142 09/04/15 06:00 PM
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gregk24 Offline OP
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[quote=dlayman]Have you tried the "key on, key off, start" sequence that seems to help a lot of people. A pain in the butt, but might make sense as a way to minimize potential damage (if there is any) until or if a fix is found. This problem existing for seven years now and no fix is astounding. Even more astounding is how widespread this is, and yet very little publicity. Its all over the place in Accord, CRV and somewhat in Civic Si forums, but nothing in the general press. Consumer Reports, where are you? You called out a lot of makers for oil consumption and slapped Honda for cheapening the 2012 Civic and that was enough for them to redo the model in one year. [/quoteHow was your week?] No, I have only heard of bump starting it, but wasn't fond of that because of potential starter damage...I didn't know the key trick was an option.


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
59,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
51,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3843472 09/05/15 07:04 AM
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I'm not sure why but it seems to help reduce or eliminate for at least some people. Most people have the problem only in cold weather. Its rare for it to happen in a warm climate like yours

Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: Phishin] #3843694 09/05/15 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Phishin
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Grinding? Could this be a tct issue? IIRC a VCT problem would be a clattering sound. My 1.5 honda had a mechanical / non-hyd TCT. Does the 2.4 have a hyd cam chain tensioner? Maybe sticking tensioner.


ARCO....it's a known problem. It's the VCT solenoid that bleeds down over time...supposedly. I just don't understand why it only happens when it's cold. My Accord can sit for 2 months without a start in July and August, and it starts just fine. But over night or longer when it's below freezing, and the noise is scary.


thermal expansion. the various parts of the variator or control valves will shrink, adn due to dissimilar metals there's something that shrinks more (or less) and creates a void for the oil to escape.


AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus Prime 2 215/50R17 (front)
Pirelli P7 Cinturato 225/45R17 (rear)
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: dlayman] #3843697 09/05/15 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: dlayman
I'm not sure why but it seems to help reduce or eliminate for at least some people. Most people have the problem only in cold weather. Its rare for it to happen in a warm climate like yours


Must be the control valve that's sticking if the cycling helps. It'll make the control valve move and unstick itself?


AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus Prime 2 215/50R17 (front)
Pirelli P7 Cinturato 225/45R17 (rear)
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3843764 09/05/15 01:25 PM
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Based on what I've been able to understand by reading and studying it, that does seem to be an accurate description of the problem, so your explanation makes sense. If I owned this engine, I would be sure to use this method as a possible preventative measure. But really, after this many years, step it up Honda. What ever happened to the old credo that Honda is an engine company that also builds cars?

Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3843768 09/05/15 01:36 PM
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gregk24 Offline OP
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I would like to think it's not causing much damage...think of all the cars that have this issue. Yes I have only heard of 1 engine failure, and I'm not even sure if they can trace the failure to the VTC actuator issue.


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
59,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
51,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3843770 09/05/15 01:37 PM
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I would like to think it's not causing much damage...think of all the cars that have this issue. Yes I have only heard of 1 engine failure, and I'm not even sure if they can trace the failure to the VTC actuator issue.


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
59,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
51,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
Re: The Honda 2.4 VCT issue.....long term damage... [Re: gregk24] #3843772 09/05/15 01:39 PM
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gregk24 Offline OP
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Also....if its a problem of oil draining then the problem should be worse in the summer heat as thinner oil would drain more quickly. The car is going to be sitting for 2 days so I'll see how it starts up on Monday.


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
59,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
51,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
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