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Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: Dirty_Howie] #3845141 09/07/15 01:52 AM
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901Memphis Offline
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Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30 and a Fram Ultra


2012 Chevy Cruze LT 1.4T - 62k - Edge 0w30 SL + Mahle OX401D
2002 Buick Century 147k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - GTX 5w30 + Fram XG3980
Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: Dirty_Howie] #3845345 09/07/15 10:21 AM
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dave1251 Offline
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You can continue to use Redline. If you want your lead PPM to decrease just do not change your oil so often.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: dave1251] #3845589 09/07/15 02:29 PM
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Dirty_Howie Offline OP
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Can you explain this please ??

DH




Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: dave1251] #3845591 09/07/15 02:31 PM
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Dirty_Howie Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dave1251
You can continue to use Redline. If you want your lead PPM to decrease just do not change your oil so often.


Can you explain this Please ?????

DH




Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: Dirty_Howie] #3845630 09/07/15 03:12 PM
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Greasymechtech Offline
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HTHS

Mobil1 5w30 3.1
Mobil1 5w30HM 3.3
Redline 5w30 3.7
Mobil1 0w40 3.8
Redline 0w40 4.0

I am no fan of low HTHS oils in a performance application. Redline 5w30 is pretty close in HTHS to Mobil1 0w40. I see Mobil1 as a viable baby step-up in viscosity to see how the engine does with a couple UOA's prior to stepping up to Redline 0w40.

I am also no fan of OE filters without picking them apart to see how well they are constructed, especially with the various GM PN's available, and the endless change of filter's construction, supplier, requirements.... Fram XG, PureOne, Baldwin, Donaldson, Wix XP, Napa Platinum, Amsoil,... oil filters are some to consider


At what point should a lurker start posting :-)
Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: Dirty_Howie] #3845724 09/07/15 04:35 PM
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dave1251 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Can you explain this please ??

DH


Redline has an chelate effect due to the esters it uses as a basestock and the chelating effect is more pronounced with fresh redline. Thus the more often you change redline the higher your metal readings are going to be in UOA's.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: Dirty_Howie] #3845725 09/07/15 04:35 PM
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Clevy Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Originally Posted By: dave1251
You can continue to use Redline. If you want your lead PPM to decrease just do not change your oil so often.


Can you explain this Please ?????

DH


When you change your oil the new oil washes off the old oils anti-wear agents,which will increase wear,until the new oil applies its own anti-weat layers.
So frequent oil changes increases this action.
Wear trends downwards as miles rack up and we've seen used oil analysis where wear metals only increase a couple ppm on a 10000 mile run vs a 5000 mile run.
So the fools errand that claim changing oil once it's black doesn't lessen or improve wear trends. In fact the opposite is true.

I'm not sure that's what Dave was getting at but I figured I'd post


2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter
Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: dave1251] #3845740 09/07/15 05:00 PM
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Dirty_Howie Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Can you explain this please ??

DH


Redline has an chelate effect due to the esters it uses as a basestock and the chelating effect is more pronounced with fresh redline. Thus the more often you change redline the higher your metal readings are going to be in UOA's.


Okay, thanks. I didn't know this.

DH




Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: Clevy] #3845742 09/07/15 05:01 PM
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Dirty_Howie Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Originally Posted By: dave1251
You can continue to use Redline. If you want your lead PPM to decrease just do not change your oil so often.


Can you explain this Please ?????

DH


When you change your oil the new oil washes off the old oils anti-wear agents,which will increase wear,until the new oil applies its own anti-weat layers.
So frequent oil changes increases this action.
Wear trends downwards as miles rack up and we've seen used oil analysis where wear metals only increase a couple ppm on a 10000 mile run vs a 5000 mile run.
So the fools errand that claim changing oil once it's black doesn't lessen or improve wear trends. In fact the opposite is true.

I'm not sure that's what Dave was getting at but I figured I'd post


Would this affect all metal wear or only bearings?
My Alum and Iron has actually gone down.

DH




Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: dave1251] #3846042 09/07/15 09:08 PM
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Ramblejam Offline
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Originally Posted By: dave1251
You can continue to use Redline. If you want your lead PPM to decrease just do not change your oil so often.


This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the chelate phenomenon.

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Redline has an chelate effect due to the esters it uses as a basestock and the chelating effect is more pronounced with fresh redline. Thus the more often you change redline the higher your metal readings are going to be in UOA's.


DH has now ran Red Line for several 3k-4k drain intervals. As such, any applicability of the effect at this point is miniscule, at best.

Let's face it, folks. While great within the confines of particular applications, the oil is simply a poor choice here -- excuses and varying justification aren't going to change that.

Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: Ramblejam] #3846523 09/08/15 10:59 AM
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dave1251 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: dave1251
You can continue to use Redline. If you want your lead PPM to decrease just do not change your oil so often.


This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the chelate phenomenon.

Nope try again.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: Dirty_Howie] #3846534 09/08/15 11:08 AM
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What is the "chelate phenomenon" of Redline? I know what chelates are in a general chemical sense, but I don't see how that would affect what is seen in an AA or ICP. Either the metallic element is there or it isn't, regardless if it is bound to a ligand. No organic compound is going to pass trough an AA flame or ICP and not be decomposed.


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 420K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: Dirty_Howie] #3846644 09/08/15 12:45 PM
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My .02 is that the high Moly content of Redline is leaching lead from the conn rod small end bushings. This is the only thing that makes sense, as I believe the LS7 has aluminum-lined bearings everywhere else.

Try something with lower Moly. For street use and a monthly autocross, thick (higher than Xw30) oils and aftermarket dry-sump oil systems aren't required.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: A_Harman] #3846677 09/08/15 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: A_Harman
My .02 is that the high Moly content of Redline is leaching lead from the conn rod small end bushings. This is the only thing that makes sense, as I believe the LS7 has aluminum-lined bearings everywhere else.


Ahha, well my bad, leaching is certainly a better word then (or dissolving). Chelating compounds generally only sequester already existing metal ions, rendering them invisible to other processes. That's the first time I've ever heard the word used in the sense to extract a greater concentration than would otherwise be present.


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 420K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead [Re: Dirty_Howie] #3846855 09/08/15 03:59 PM
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addyguy Offline
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I don't know if it has been asked, but any chance leaded race gas was used for the track events?

Or a gas additive/octane boost that had some lead in it?


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 146k miles.
Castrol GTX HM 5W-30, STP blue bottle; Fram TG 9688.

2009 Pontiac G5 - 2.2 I-4, auto, 121k miles.
Oil/filter TBD
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