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Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: rshaw125] #3556465 12/05/14 09:24 AM
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SHOZ Offline
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The ignition timing is set by the crank sensor. The fuel injection timing is set by the cam sensor.

Assuming the sensor is good it almost has to be the triggering lobe on the cam or something else directly related.

The sensor is pretty dumb. To check it use a volt meter set on AC and wave a metal object repeatedly in front o f it. You will get a pulsed voltage signal that registers as AC on the meter.


2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual
Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: rshaw125] #3556568 12/05/14 11:42 AM
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rshaw125 Offline OP
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It sure looks and sounds like a timing issue. Whatever information the cam sensor is sending to the PCM it is not what it wants.


I will check the new sensor operation and pull the valve cover this weekend.
Thanks.


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: rshaw125] #3556621 12/05/14 01:07 PM
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i look at the cam sensor as the distributor tells what cylinder to fire.right? mine went out in the Lincoln I replaced it engines runs smooth.

Last edited by boxcartommie22; 12/05/14 01:08 PM.

2001 Lincoln Conti,RL,K&N,Hotshots,Lubegard,Archoil
2007 Grand Marquis,RL,K&N,Hotshots,Lubegard,Archoil
2010 Raptor,RL,Hotshots,Lubegard,Archoil
Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: boxcartommie22] #3556664 12/05/14 01:33 PM
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rshaw125 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
i look at the cam sensor as the distributor tells what cylinder to fire.right? mine went out in the Lincoln I replaced it engines runs smooth.


The cam sensor is new and it does not have a distributor.


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: rshaw125] #3556681 12/05/14 01:47 PM
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Do you get a check engine light and a DTC code when scanned?


2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual
Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: SHOZ] #3556689 12/05/14 01:59 PM
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rshaw125 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Do you get a check engine light and a DTC code when scanned?


Yes, misfire cylinders 2 and 4.
cam sensor level = low


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: rshaw125] #3556695 12/05/14 02:03 PM
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Cam sensor level low means the signal return wire is shorted out.


2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual
Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: rshaw125] #3556707 12/05/14 02:21 PM
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2002 PCED OBDII SECTION 5: Pinpoint Tests

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR: Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor DR: Introduction

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR1 DTC P0340: CHECK IF ENGINE WILL START
Note: Refer to the Pinpoint Test Schematic to determine the type of CMP sensor.

Start engine.
Will the engine start?
Yes No
GO to DR2 . DTC P0340 is not the cause of the No Start. GO to Section 3 to diagnose the No Start symptom.

DR2 CLEAR AND ATTEMPT TO RE-GENERATE DTC P0340
Complete PCM Reset to clear DTCs.
Increase rpm to greater than 1500 rpm for 10 seconds. Repeat two times.
Retrieve all Continuous Memory DTCs.
Is DTC P0340 present?
Yes No
For VR type CMP:

KEY OFF. GO to DR5

For Hall Effect type CMP:

KEY OFF. GO to DR3 The fault that produced DTC P0340 is intermittent. GO to Z1 .

DR3 CHECK VPWR VOLTAGE TO CMP SENSOR
Disconnect CMP sensor.
Key on, engine off.
Measure VPWR circuit voltage between CMP sensor harness connector and battery negative post.
Is voltage greater than 10.5 volts?
Yes No
KEY OFF. GO to DR4 . REPAIR open circuit.

DR4 CHECK PWR GND TO CMP SENSOR
Measure resistance of PWR GND circuit between CMP sensor harness connector and battery negative post.
Is resistance less than 5.0 ohms?
Yes No
GO to DR5 . REPAIR open circuit.

DR5 CHECK FOR OPEN CMP, SIG RTN/CMP GND AND PWR GND CIRCUITS BETWEEN PCM AND CMP SENSOR
Note: Refer to the PCM connector pin numbers in the beginning of this pinpoint test.

Disconnect PCM and CMP sensor.
If VR type CMP: Measure resistance of CMP, CMP GND/SIG RTN circuits between PCM harness connector pin and CMP sensor harness connector.
If Hall type CMP: Measure resistance of CMP, VPWR and PWR GND circuits between PCM harness connector and CMP sensor harness connector.
Are resistance measurements less than 5.0 ohms?
Yes No
GO to DR6 . REPAIR open circuit.

DR6 CHECK CMP CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO POWER IN HARNESS
Key on, engine off.
If Hall type CMP: Measure voltage between CMP and VPWR circuits at the PCM harness connector.
If VR type CMP: Measure voltage between CMP and CMP GND/SIG RTN circuits at the PCM connector.
Is voltage less than 1.0 volt?
Yes No
KEY OFF. GO to DR7 . REPAIR short circuit.

DR7 CHECK CMP CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO GND AND SIG RTN IN HARNESS
If VR type CMP: Measure resistance between CMP and CMP GND/SIG RTN at the PCM harness connector.
If Hall type CMP: Measure resistance between CMP and PWR GND at the PCM harness connector.
Is each resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
GO to DR8 . REPAIR short circuit.

DR8 CHECK FOR SHORTS IN PCM
Reconnect PCM.
For VR type CMP: Measure resistance between CMP and CMP GND/SIG RTN circuits at the CMP harness connector.
For Hall Effect type CMP: Measure resistance between CMP and VPWR and CMP and PWR GND circuits at the CMP harness connector.
Is each resistance greater than 500 ohms?
Yes No
For VR type CMP:

GO to DR9 .

For Hall Effect type CMP:

GO to DR10 . REPLACE PCM (refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM) .

DR9 CHECK CMP SENSOR OUTPUT
Reconnect CMP sensor.
Digital multimeter on ac scale (to monitor less than 5.0 volts).
Measure voltage between CMP and CMP GND/SIG RTN circuits while running engine at varying rpm.
Does AC voltage vary greater than 0.2 volt AC?
Yes No
REPLACE PCM (refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM) . REPLACE CMP sensor.

DR10 CHECK CMP SENSOR OUTPUT DURING CRANK MODE
Disconnect PCM.
Reconnect CMP sensor.
Connect digital multimeter between CMP and the CMP sensor GND circuit.
Bump engine in short bursts with the starter without starting engine for at least 10 engine revolutions.
Does voltage reading switch between low (less than 2.0 volts dc) and high (greater than 8.0 volts dc)?
Yes No
A CMP sensor that is installed out of synchronization will produce a DTC. VERIFY the correct installation by referring to Electronic Engine Controls, Section 303-14 in the Workshop Manual. If CMP is installed properly, REPLACE PCM (refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM) .
Note: If vehicle has a miss with the P0340 code, ignition/ alternator noise, RFI, and CKP concerns should be considered.
REPLACE CMP sensor.


2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual
Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: rshaw125] #3556749 12/05/14 03:00 PM
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Just background: There are two types of cam sensors. Old school cam sensors (on engines that do not have variable cam timing) are only used to tell the PCM what cylinder is firing, and this info is only used to sync up the fuel injectors on SEFI systems. The PCM always knows what the crankshaft position is due to the crank sensor, but that information doesn't tell the PCM if the cylinder is on the compression or the exhaust stroke. These have a 180 degree shutter/reluctor, many times in a stub housing (like a 3.0 Vulcan).

Later cam sensors (really the PCM) keep track of the above, but also keep track of actual cam timing (vs crank timing) so as to act as VCT feedback to verify the cam timing is where the PCM is telling it to be.

Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: rshaw125] #3556766 12/05/14 03:19 PM
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Here's the dirt on it from the manual.

Camshaft Position Sensor
The camshaft position (CMP) sensor detects the position of the camshaft. The CMP sensor identifies when piston No. 1 is on its compression stroke. A signal is then sent to the powertrain control module (PCM) and used for synchronizing the firing of sequential fuel injectors. The Coil On Plug (COP) Ignition applications also use the CMP signal to select the proper ignition coil to fire. The input circuit to the PCM is referred to as the CMP input or circuit.

There are two types of CMP sensors: the three pin connector Hall-effect type sensor (Figure 22) and the two pin connector variable reluctance sensor (Figure 23).


2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual
Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: rshaw125] #3558879 12/07/14 07:58 PM
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Perhaps the timing chain stretched out, broke the guides, or jumped a tooth?


2010 Lancer Ralliart Sportback
Re: Why have cam sensor ? runs without it. [Re: rshaw125] #3830049 08/22/15 12:02 PM
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Posting the fix for this. The ECU. The car sat parked for months and then I found a repair company in Colorado. The ECU was mailed and they replaced 3 components. Back within a week. The car now runs like new. CMP plugged in, zero misfires. No check engine light.


2012 Porsche Carrera S
2016 Ford Edge 2.0
2002 Taurus Vulcan SOLD
2006 Explorer SOLD
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