Toyo Celsius All-Weather Tire

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Nokian's WRG3 "all weather" tire will be getting some competition from Toyo, in the USA market.

http://www.tirereview.com/toyos-celsius-plans-to-one-up-all-season-tires/

"...With an asymmetrical tread design, the tire has the traction capability on snow and ice of a winter tire as well as the ability to perform on wet and dry roads like an all-season tire.

The inside tread functions much like a winter tire. Higher sipe density provides more biting edges to increase traction on snow and ice, Toyo said. Additionally, the tire features snow claws to improve deep snow traction and slush grooves that provide increased traction on slush and snow.

In turn, the outside tread is built like an all-season tire, according to Toyo. Lower sipe density provides grip and traction for wet and dry roads, while the multi-wave sipe design also helps increase block rigidity, giving the tire better traction on icy, wet and dry road conditions, the tiremaker said. Snow claws are also present on the outside tread…"
 
Pirelli sold P77s in the early 80s with a dual tread design, and the P500 after that. I still don't know if the dual tread is a good concept although I used P5OOS on a SAAB.
 
I'm glad to see another tire entering this market in the U.S. These all-season tires with the mountain/snowflake designation interest me because where I live we can get a decent amount of winter weather, but not enough to justify buying dedicated winter tires.

Here are the tires on the Toyo website. Apparently, there are two different versions, the Celsius and the Celsius CUV.

http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/celsius-cuv-variable-conditions-tire

http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/celsius-variable-conditions-tire
 
Funny. I was just about to post about this tire. I noticed it on TreadDepot today. It's very intriguing to me. As with most Toyo tires, it also comes in many sizes (available for both my rides). Having the snowflake on all-seasons is very rare. I wonder how they will be in the heat/summer? They do have a decent warranty.
 
I've never been impressed with these "all weather" tires bearing the snowflake symbol. They are better in the winter than all-seasons, but don't come close to matching a TRUE winter tire, especially after the tread wears a bit. I had a Nokian WR tire (predecessor to WRG) that was good the first winter, wore a LOT in warmer weather, and was like a racing slick the second winter. I may be the only person in the world who has had a bad experience with Nokian tires. I imagine their dedicated winter tires are much better. These "all weather" designs may be fine for a low mileage driver who only very occasionally encounters winter conditions.
 
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I've always been scared off by the rounded edge on the outside tread on these tires. I've had a dedicated snow tire with a rounded edge and I disliked how it slid over the snow even at large slip angles.
Its most obvious when I'm fooling around on my driveway in rwd mode, but for a fwd car understeering severely, the square edge helps plow the loose snow away letting the contact patch find something solid down there, hopefully pavement.
 
This tire looks like a good deal! Too bad it's not available in more sizes. It looks like it's similar to the Nokian WR G3 which is arguably the most competent "All Weather" tire out there in snow/ice conditions. I have an '06 AUD1 A6 Avant w/slightly undersize (for winter) 225/55x16 Nokian Hakkapelitta R2's which I believe are the ultimat studless snow tire. I bought another '07 A6 Avant for my wife & since we already had a "snowmobile" I put stock size (245/45x17) Nokian WR G3'son it. I'm amazed by their snow/ice capability, they give up very little in snow/ice traction to the R2 equipped car. They're of course slightly quieter & have better dry/wet handling than R2, should last longer as well! Great tire but expensive!
 
http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/2015...tions-8217-tire

"...Celsius is specifically designed for the North American market and for now is only available in the U.S., company officials said…"

"...Third-party testing found that the new Celsius tire stops up to 31 feet shorter on snow and 8 feet shorter on ice than a typical all-season tire, Toyo said, and has enhanced performance on wet and dry roads. The tire carries a 60,000-mile treadwear warranty…"
 
"...In our tests, the new Toyo Celsius and Nokian WR G3 deliver solid winter traction, with good stopping grip on dry roads and confident handling. In contrast, many snow tires may edge-out these all-weather tires on snow and ice, but they trade-down with fair to poor stopping ability on cleared pavement and lackluster handling. The Celsius and WR G3 offer good winter grip but neither is quite as good as dedicated snow tire models from those brands…"

http://www.consumerreports.org/winter-sn...-car-year-round
 
if it's nearly as good as the Michelin crossclimate, it'll be a very good tyre. Seems tohave the same goals: mixed pavement/snow/ice use.

Had a chance to test my crossclimates on wet snow and ice, and it's almost like driving on pavement.

the salted and cleared roads I could give full throttle even in 1st gear without lighting up ESP.

ABS nor ESP has kicked in so far...
 
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Nokian got competition? Yeah Toyo is known for their snow tires
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And consumer reports? Common man, CR is OK when you buying dryer not tires or cars.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Nokian got competition? Yeah Toyo is known for their snow tires
lol.gif
lol.gif
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And consumer reports? Common man, CR is OK when you buying dryer not tires or cars.


Do you have better source of tire tests in the USA?

Krzyś
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Nokian got competition? Yeah Toyo is known for their snow tires
lol.gif
lol.gif
lol.gif

And consumer reports? Common man, CR is OK when you buying dryer not tires or cars.


CR does some pretty in-depth tire testing. They own a test track (the former Connecticut Dragway) and they have people on staff that came from the tire industry.

This video at the top of this page shows some of their testing, including wet tests on the track and test cars in an ice rink:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/tires/buying-guide.htm

I've owned three different sets of tires that I compared to CR's tests and their results were pretty much spot-on with my real-world experience.

Here' a pic of their track I just found:
CR042K14-CON-Track.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: krzyss
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Nokian got competition? Yeah Toyo is known for their snow tires
lol.gif
lol.gif
lol.gif

And consumer reports? Common man, CR is OK when you buying dryer not tires or cars.


Do you have better source of tire tests in the USA?

Krzyś

Nope, I use ADAC for reference.
I still have not seen real tire test i the U.S,
When I want to find out something, I go to www.adac.de
 
Me too but ADAC tests tires available in the Germany and not everything aplies to the USA.

So I use CR too.

Tire that performs poor in ADAC, Auto Bild, CR tets is very likely poor performer.

Tire that performs well in one rarely performs badly in any other.

The only CR test result that caused wide spread doubt was poor traction on snow for Continental DWS. CR bought second set and retested the tire and got different results. They concluded that manufacturer must have changed formulation between batches without telling/notifying anybody.

Krzys

PS Winter CR tests are limited in scope (braking on ice, acceleration on snow) but my biggest issue is lack of absolute numbers, just circles for result group placement.
 
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Originally Posted By: krzyss
Me too but ADAC tests tires available in the Germany and not everything aplies to the USA.

So I use CR too.

Tire that performs poor in ADAC, Auto Bild, CR tets is very likely poor performer.

Tire that performs well in one rarely performs badly in any other.

The only CR test result that caused wide spread doubt was poor traction on snow for Continental DWS. CR bought second set and retested the tire and got different results. They concluded that manufacturer must have changed formulation between batches without telling/notifying anybody.

Krzys

PS Winter CR tests are limited in scope (braking on ice, acceleration on snow) but my biggest issue is lack of absolute numbers, just circles for result group placement.

A lot of snow tires on ADAC are not available in the US.
But I take manufacturer and compare with their tires in the U.S. and reviews on Tire Rack.
CR does not test tires the way they should. We have ice braking and acceleration on snow. But tehre is no NM force in acceleration, hydroplaning, slush test, deep snow, packed snow etc. That is why Michelin Xi's are always good in the U.S. tests but here among skiers no one wants them since they are underperforming in deep snow, slush etc. meaning they are made for urban areas on East coast, areas with black ice etc.
On ADAC Michelin is alway average or below average performer when it comes to winter tires, so it would be really strange that they made suddenly good winter tire for the U.S. market but not EU market where much more winter tires are sold.
I would say it is same with Toyo. Until I see similar or same tire in ADAC test, I would say: good attempt.
 
Originally Posted By: krzyss
....

The only CR test result that caused wide spread doubt was poor traction on snow for Continental DWS. CR bought second set and retested the tire and got different results. They concluded that manufacturer must have changed formulation between batches without telling/notifying anybody.

Krzys

PS Winter CR tests are limited in scope (braking on ice, acceleration on snow) but my biggest issue is lack of absolute numbers, just circles for result group placement.


Conti DWS extreme contact for me were completely overrated. Winter traction was average at best. Our prior wr g2's with 40k had superior winter traction over the brand new DWS. Cr was spot on!
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
...On ADAC Michelin is alway average or below average performer when it comes to winter tires….


Took a look at the ADAC tests (14", 15", and 17" sizes) from 2013, 2014, and 2015. The Michelin Alpin A4 was among the top 4 tires for all those years. Rated higher than the Conti TS850 in 2015. I would call that above average performance, but not class leading.

But the Alpin 5 was a midpack, average performer in 2015 and 2014
 
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