Possible Fram Ultra issue

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I just tried it again at noon today after sitting since yesterday and no noise at all, its silent as it ever was. So the same oil is in there just a different filter, it appear the problem is in this particular filter.
I have Fram ultra's in other engines and no noise at all so it could be just this one filter. It appears to be a simple full flow filter i cant imagine whats causing the problem.
 
Hello,
I read the entire thread so I know what has transpired. Couple things, lifter noise on start up is causing by the lifters bleeding down. You changed the filter (and oil) and the noise went away. It could have been the oil. The Ultra filters have less than a 2psi pressure drop and have better flow than cellulose/synthetic glass weaves. Beside that, oil flow through the filter is going to be the same when cold or hot, the oil pump doesn't change flow based on outside or oil temp. It is regulated by the pressure relief valve and the bypass in the filter mount only opens if oil cannot flow through the filter. I would be happy to evaluate the filter but you have to go through the normal claims process. Email [email protected]. They will send you a claim kit to send the filter in. They will lab test it and report back to you.
 
Motorking, I have a question for you.

The OEM oil filter for all model years Honda S2000 from 2000 to 2009 is 15400-PCX-004, all other Honda and Acura vehicles use different oil filter, most likely 15400-PLM-A01/A02. 15400-PCX-004 is slightly wider and a little shorter than 15400-PLM-A01/A02.

Fram recommends 3593A for Honda S2000 MY 2000-2001, 7317 for MY 2002-2003 and 6607 for MY 2004-2009.

3593A is similar in size with 15400-PCX-004, 7317 is narrower but a little longer by about 0.2", 6607 is very small compares with 3593A and 15400-PCX-004.

Why Honda has 1 oil filter for all model years S2000 and Fram is downsizing oil filters from 3593A to 7317 to 6607 ? What is the advantage of 6607 over 7317 and the advantage of 7317 over 3593A ?

The way I see it is Fram catalog is totally wrong in recommending 3 different oil filters for Honda S2000. 7317 and 6607 should never be used in S2000.
 
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Hello,
I read the entire thread so I know what has transpired. Couple things, lifter noise on start up is causing by the lifters bleeding down. You changed the filter (and oil) and the noise went away. It could have been the oil. The Ultra filters have less than a 2psi pressure drop and have better flow than cellulose/synthetic glass weaves. Beside that, oil flow through the filter is going to be the same when cold or hot, the oil pump doesn't change flow based on outside or oil temp. It is regulated by the pressure relief valve and the bypass in the filter mount only opens if oil cannot flow through the filter. I would be happy to evaluate the filter but you have to go through the normal claims process. Email [email protected]. They will send you a claim kit to send the filter in. They will lab test it and report back to you.


Gee, I read the whole thread too. Saw that the last two starts were quiet after the Fram was switched out without an oil change. I doubt it's the oil per your suggestion. The evidence at this point is much stronger for a bad filter or a marginal application for that particular filter design on that particular engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Hello,
I read the entire thread so I know what has transpired. Couple things, lifter noise on start up is causing by the lifters bleeding down. You changed the filter (and oil) and the noise went away. It could have been the oil. The Ultra filters have less than a 2psi pressure drop and have better flow than cellulose/synthetic glass weaves. Beside that, oil flow through the filter is going to be the same when cold or hot, the oil pump doesn't change flow based on outside or oil temp. It is regulated by the pressure relief valve and the bypass in the filter mount only opens if oil cannot flow through the filter. I would be happy to evaluate the filter but you have to go through the normal claims process. Email [email protected]. They will send you a claim kit to send the filter in. They will lab test it and report back to you.


REALLY? Read it all again, and then maybe one more time to make sure you understand.
 
There is the fact that the bypass valve is there to prevent loss of flow even if the filter is plugged like a rock.
Maybe the more restrictive Wix is forcing the bypass to open. Thereby the oil has two holes to go through so that means more flow. That's it. hahahaha
So the installed Wix filter absolutely has no built in bypass valve, but is without valve like the shown Fram?
 
All filters specified for the GM 3800 here should have no internal bypass inside the filter. The oil bypass is located inside the block for oil filter relief if differential pressure is too high.
 
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Hello,
I read the entire thread so I know what has transpired. Couple things, lifter noise on start up is causing by the lifters bleeding down. You changed the filter and oil and the noise went away. It could have been the oil. The Ultra filters have less than a 2psi pressure drop and have better flow than cellulose/synthetic glass weaves. Beside that, oil flow through the filter is going to be the same when cold or hot, the oil pump doesn't change flow based on outside or oil temp. It is regulated by the pressure relief valve and the bypass in the filter mount only opens if oil cannot flow through the filter. I would be happy to evaluate the filter but you have to go through the normal claims process. Email [email protected]. They will send you a claim kit to send the filter in. They will lab test it and report back to you.



No i just changed the filter. The oil stayed in, it only has 1K on it.
Thanks for the email address, i will contact them tonight. It would be nice to know why this happened.
I like the filters, the seem very well made so i don't want anyone getting the idea i am trying to throw stones. The issue was real and now its been resolved with the new filter.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Hello,
I read the entire thread so I know what has transpired. Couple things, lifter noise on start up is causing by the lifters bleeding down. You changed the filter (and oil) and the noise went away. It could have been the oil. The Ultra filters have less than a 2psi pressure drop and have better flow than cellulose/synthetic glass weaves. Beside that, oil flow through the filter is going to be the same when cold or hot, the oil pump doesn't change flow based on outside or oil temp. It is regulated by the pressure relief valve and the bypass in the filter mount only opens if oil cannot flow through the filter. I would be happy to evaluate the filter but you have to go through the normal claims process. Email [email protected]. They will send you a claim kit to send the filter in. They will lab test it and report back to you.


Gee, I read the whole thread too. Saw that the last two starts were quiet after the Fram was switched out without an oil change. I doubt it's the oil per your suggestion. The evidence at this point is much stronger for a bad filter or a marginal application for that particular filter design on that particular engine.


I agree with Brian Barnhart ... It seems that the problem that occurred points toward the filter (either a bad/defective filter or a problem with that filter on Trav's particular application) since the only thing he changed was the filter (changed from the FRAM filter back to a NAPA Gold filter), which resulted in the noise going away.
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
All filters specified for the GM 3800 here should have no internal bypass inside the filter. The oil bypass is located inside the block for oil filter relief if differential pressure is too high.

I realize that, have had GM engines. Trying to problem solve means each possibility has to be verified. They do make filters with bypass inside I believe, that fit. My last Chev, a G30, was a 71 so I don't remember but I think I do remember you had to make sure. It's a strange case because the block bypass valve should prevent differences like this, if it is working. Right? If bypass is stuck closed, the higher flowing Fram will flow so much the lifters get missed, because the oil moves by so fast, I think.
 
I think you should take Fram up on the filter claim and let them test it with their expensive machines and they will probably be able to give you plenty of information.
 
Maybe there is something to looking for Toyota name filters for my Toyotas. I know when I used the knocked down, terrible, Denso Toyota filters on my daughter's car, it ran like a swiss watch all the time. Heck with Amsol and their graph, they work. Now I am trying all kinds of stuff just because of that stupid graph.
BTW no one answers why the bypass valve isn't taking care of things when the Fram Ultra filter can't flow enough. BTW I was joking when I said the lifters can't catch the Fram flowing oil it moves so fast.
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I think you should take Fram up on the filter claim and let them test it with their expensive machines and they will probably be able to give you plenty of information.
Fram is only going to blow smoke up his rear end. Jay is nothing more the a smooth talking salesman!!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: steveh
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I think you should take Fram up on the filter claim and let them test it with their expensive machines and they will probably be able to give you plenty of information.
Fram is only going to blow smoke up his rear end. Jay is nothing more the a smooth talking salesman!!

That's pure [censored].
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I think you should take Fram up on the filter claim and let them test it with their expensive machines and they will probably be able to give you plenty of information.


Thats what i will do, no point in guessing. I have been thinking abut this all last night and cant come up with anything that would cause this, it doesn't make any sense.
I almost want to try another one on this engine just to see if it makes noise, i think i will next time and have a Gold to replace it with if it does.

I have a few of these engines so the gold wont go to waste if it does make noise and if it does then i just wont use them on this engine because at that point it might be a design error at the mounting plate and not even an actual flow issue.

Like i said more questions than answers at this point. The engine is quiet as always now so i feel better about that.
 
Glad to see you taking them up on their offer instead of just saying 'ah, Fram is garbage' and throwing it away.

The only experience I can relate was I put on a M1 filter 2 winters ago on my Tribute, and I got a tick for a few seconds at start-up. But, it was the first use of syn in that engine, so I'm not putting much stock in it.

But, since then I've been cheap, and have only used OCOD and OCOD clone filters, and I hardly ever have start-up tick....so I dunno.
 
When you take into consideration the ittzy bittzy base plate inlet holes and a filter element that catches everything including the Ebola virus, you're gonna have some oil starved engines.
 
The Ultra is not flow restrictive. It's probably a lifter going bad.

It's possible the filter did have some kind of issue after in use for a bit, but I highly doubt it. Cutting it open will tell more, and swapping filters will tell you something also.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
I started it after 10 hrs, engine stone cold and its quiet as it always was. No noise of any kind. I have to wonder whats going on with that filter.
I will check it again in the AM but i can tell it fine. Notice the holes in the top plate. I didn't check the diameter of the holes so the total area may be the same but i don't think so, i will check it later.

Next OC i will try a Platinum, it supposedly flows even better than the Gold even though both are rated 9 to 11 gpm.

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It's not the holes in the base plate ... that horse has been beat to death. Yeah, the Platinum should flow well since it's only 50% @ 20 microns.
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Originally Posted By: Lubener
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: Lubener
For a filter to be as efficient as the Ultra, some flow ability has to be compromised. I would have Fram check out that filter if the replacement works better.


Wrong. Synthetic fiber oil filters like Ultra actually flow better or right at spec. Smaller diameter fibers and better consistency than cellulose paper oil filters.


I don't buy it. The smaller pores in the media will trap more smaller particles but will resist flow more. Until I see some scientific proof, I am not drinking the kool aid.


It's true ... full synthetic filters flow better than cellulose. Do some research on the 'net and you'll see why.
 
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