Dipstick, screw in or not?

Excerpt from Kohler Command manual:

Unthread and remove the oil fill cap/dipstick; wipe
oil off. Reinsert the dipstick into the tube and rest
the oil fill cap on the tube. Do not thread the cap
onto the tube. See Figure 6
 
Since it's a Tecumseh, I'd check the oil level without screwing the stick back in. This will force you to have more oil in the case than you would if checking it with the stick screwed all the way in.

Everyone knows that if you run a Tecumseh even a couple of ounces low on oil it will throw the rod out the side of the block. Best to have too much oil in it than too little.
grin.gif


I own one Tecumseh HM80 and one B&S OHV Intek and the Tec says to check without screwing the stick in and the B&S says to screw it in.
 
To add to the confusion, my Toro walk-behind with a Tecumseh says:

1. Remove the dipstick, wipe it clean, and fully install the dipstick (Figure 12).

Since this is a screw-in dipstick, I take the above to mean I should screw it back back in when checking the level.
 
How about we just say:

If there is oil on the stick and not too far up, you are in better shape than probably 90% of the other push mowers with dipsticks, let alone the other OPE out there in use.
 
doesn't the owner manual for that engine tell you how to check the oil? usually it is right on the first couple of pages. and if you don't have the copy of it, ask Mr. Google. He always knows!
 
Thanks everyone for the replies.

I don't know weather it is from my poor eye sight or maybe I was just too tired when I read through the Tecumseh manuals. But today when I read through those manuals again, I found a section that says to screw the oil plug/dipstick all the way in when you check the oil level.

So today I used a 60 cc medical syringe to suck oil out until it read full (not over full). I had to remove 120 cc of oil.

Thanks again everyone.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Please include any reference from any manual you have regarding which way is the proper way to take this oil level measurement.

Thanks in advance for any reply.


It took me less than 30 seconds to find this information for Briggs and Stratton engines. I've always checked those types of engines with the dipstick seated or tightened.

Quote:
If the engine includes a dipstick cap, remove the dipstick and wipe it with a clean cloth. To ensure an accurate reading, reinsert the dipstick completely. Then, remove it again and check the oil level. If the dipstick cap is a screw-in type, ensure an accurate reading by screwing in all the way before removing it a second time to check the level. The oil mark on the dipstick should be between the lines shown on the dipstick (image C)
. It should never be above the FULL line or below the ADD line.


Link

And another 30 seconds to find this from Tecumseh.

Quote:
I. Oil Fill Cap/Dipstick
If your engine has an oil fill cap/dipstick go to step 1. If your
engine does NOT have an oil fill cap/dipstick, see "II. Oil Fill
Cap/Plug" instructions below.
1. Be sure engine is upright and level.
2. Unscrew oil fill cap/dipstick from oil filler tube and wipe
dipstick clean. See Figures 8 and 9.
3. Screw oil fill cap/dipstick back into oil filler tube. Tighten
securely.
4. Unscrew and remove oil fill cap/dipstick from oil filler
tube. Note oil level. If oil reading on dipstick is below
“ADD” mark, slowly add oil to reach “FULL” level. See
Figure 7 on page 4. Afterward, continue reading
instructions below.

5. Screw oil fill cap/dipstick back into oil filler tube.
Tighten securely.
6. Wipe away any spilled oil.


If you had another 30 seconds available, would you be prepared to check for the procedure for a Yamaha Breeze 125 scooter?

Havn't been able to find that specific manual online. Yamaha Majesty 250 manual is the closest I've found. I'd THINK they'd all be the same

It doesn't say, but the picture seems to imply not screwed-in. You're supposed to warm it up first, though, which seems strange.

Doing it cold would tend to produce a relative underfill, I'd have thought, which is the opposite of what I'm accused of.
 
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Also says

"Be sure not to use oils labeled “ENERGY
CONSERVING II” b or higher. Engine oil
also lubricates the clutch and additives
could cause clutch slippage."

Is that true for an automatic CVT scooter, or have they just cut and pasted that from a motorcycle manual?
 
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Also says

"Be sure not to use oils labeled “ENERGY
CONSERVING II” b or higher. Engine oil
also lubricates the clutch and additives
could cause clutch slippage."

Is that true for an automatic CVT scooter, or have they just cut and pasted that from a motorcycle manual?


Yup - CVT scooter is a whole different animal. Use any oil you'd like. I prefer an HDEO due to the high rpms they sustain, but to each his own. Any stout oil of an appropriate grade (as per manual) will be fine.

No need to buy bike-shop specialty oils for a scooter.
 
Hmm... Interesting discussion. Now I'll have to re-read the manual for my Powerhouse generator and see exactly what it says. I had thought it said to screw it in, but it goes in at an angle. Never did like that the reading can be high or low depending on how careful you are.
 
Originally Posted By: Dave Sherman
Now I'll have to re-read the manual for my Powerhouse generator and see exactly what it says.


I've been looking at the Powerhouse Inverter generators, funny you mention them. How does it perform? hold up? Pretty stable and economical?
 
Originally Posted By: Lawn_Care
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Also says

"Be sure not to use oils labeled “ENERGY
CONSERVING II” b or higher. Engine oil
also lubricates the clutch and additives
could cause clutch slippage."

Is that true for an automatic CVT scooter, or have they just cut and pasted that from a motorcycle manual?


Yup - CVT scooter is a whole different animal. Use any oil you'd like. I prefer an HDEO due to the high rpms they sustain, but to each his own. Any stout oil of an appropriate grade (as per manual) will be fine.

No need to buy bike-shop specialty oils for a scooter.


From checking a few more Yamaha manuals available online, this fundamentally half-assed procedure seems to be more or less standard for Yamaha scooters, without the clutch slip stuff, which I THINK is just wrong. For example, the YP400T manual has:-

"1. Stand the scooter on a level surface.
NOTE:
_
• Place the scooter on a suitable stand.
• Make sure the scooter is upright.
2. Start the engine, warm it up for several minutes, and then turn it off.
3. Check:
• engine oil level
Wipe the dipstick 1 clean, insert it into the oil filler hole (without screwing it in), and
then remove it to check the oil level.
The engine oil level should be between the minimum level mark a and maximum level mark b.
Below the minimum level mark → Add the recommended engine oil to the proper level.
CAUTION:
_
Do not allow foreign materials to enter the
crankcase.

NOTE:
_
• API Service “SE”, “SF” and “SG” type or equivalent (e.g., “SF-SE”, “SF-SE-CC”, “SFSE- SD”)
• Before checking the engine oil level, wait a few minutes until the oil has settled.
4. Start the engine, warm it up for several minutes, and then turn it off.
5. Check the engine oil level again.
NOTE:
_
Before checking the engine oil level, wait a few minutes until the oil has settled."

I don't like this procedure because its more time consuming than checking cold, and its likely to be less consistent. Specifically

(a) You basically have to repeat the entire procedure twice ( 2=5, 3=6) , the second time (only, for no obvious reason) telling you to wait a few minutes before checking the oil level.

(b) There are many more uncontrolled variables with this procedure than there are just checking the oil-level cold. For example

1.How hot does it get?
2. How long EXACTLY do you let it settle? ("a few minutes" is imprecise)
3. How much does it settle? (this will be influenced by 1. 2. and the oil used)
4. How much does it cool while its settling? (too many influences to list)


The only reason I can think of that checking cold would produce the overfill I'm accused of is if oil expands significantly when hot.

According to this site:-

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/cubical-expansion-coefficients-d_1262.html

Volumetric Coefficient of Expansion of Oil (unused engine oil) is 0.00070

Assuming you put in a litre of oil at an ambient temperature of 30C, and assuming its at 80C when its level is measured, it'd have a volume of 1035 mls, or 35mls more. Maybe this is enough to produce an overfill.

If it is I suppose I could just put in 35 mls less when I check and fill it cold.
 
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Then again, if its significant, ambient temperature could have an almost equivalent range, say from -10 to 40C. Perhaps that's why they specify checking the oil with the engine hot, trying to control that variable.

This is what comes of talking to mechanics women who've been talking to mechanics. You end up having to think about things that probably aren't worth thinking about.
 
Originally Posted By: Lawn_Care
Originally Posted By: Dave Sherman
Now I'll have to re-read the manual for my Powerhouse generator and see exactly what it says.


I've been looking at the Powerhouse Inverter generators, funny you mention them. How does it perform? hold up? Pretty stable and economical?



A little underwhelmed with mine. Automatic choke is a pain in the cold, it opens too quickly. Starting is difficult, even after I cleaned the metal particles out of the carburetor. I had to pop out the tamper plug to adjust it so it would idle smoothly. If you can get it started, it runs OK and it has a fairly clean sinusoidal output.

I looked back in the owner's manual, and it does say to screw The dipstick all the way in to check.
 
After a decade with my 2009 Craftsman (Powermore engine) snowblower, I decided to actually look in the engine manual, which I had downloaded from the manufacturer, MTD. It clearly states that with threaded dipsticks (in older style engines), DO NOT screw in the dipstick. Then, I went out and looked at the engine, and there is a small graphic on the fuel tank, right next to the dipstick, illustrating NOT to thread the dipstick cap in. 10 years of ownership, and I never noticed it. Duh!

However, MTD's manual ALSO says that if you have a newer style engine (like my 2015 Craftsman riding mower) with the 1/4 turn dipstick, you SHOULD turn that kind until it or seated, then check the dipstick. These instructions should apply to any MTD built snow blower, mower, etc. with their Powermore engine, which is used in more name brands than you can imagine.
 
Goes to show, it doesn't matter much. I will continue to screw it in. My Craftsman's are either Roper or Huskvarna built not MTD. I hope the OP figured it out five years ago.
 
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On all of the old B&S and Tecumseh engines the dipstick must be screwed-in to check the oil. It was like that for MANY years. B&S actually has it marked right on the dipstick.
 
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