BMW N52 - highly stressed engine- oil recommendation

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Originally Posted By: ecotourist
Finally I suspect you're going to have overheating problems. BMW's cooling systems don't seem to be the greatest and with low speeds on grades and such you're not going to have as much airflow as you would at higher speeds.


My 530i has no problems with cooling capacity nor with capability at low speeds, in fact it seems a bit over-sized if anything. The problem is usually with reliability related to age, not performance.
 
Originally Posted By: Paul
Trailer is 3500lbs. It's not so much the weight as the aerodynamics at highway speeds. Its a parachute behind the car.

I think perhaps I need to rephrase my question as there will be as many opinions as posters.

Can I improve on the GC 0W-30 that I have been using in the BMW for the last 6 yrs. given that the vehicle will enter "sever-duty", for 10-12hrs at a time, with a good chunk of that time being spent at full throttle?

Thank you all again


3500 lb travel trailer being pulled by a car with a 2.5L engine. Presumably with a full load of people and belongings enough for a 20k mile road trip. That's definitely working it hard. Make sure the cooling system is in perfect working order, for sure. Does the car have an oil cooler? Get gauges. Coolant and oil temperatures, trans temperature, oil pressure. I think I would stop working the engine hard if the coolant temperature gets over 220F, and the oil over 280F. Maybe run a lean coolant mixture of 30% antifreeze/70% water. With Purple Ice or Water Wetter additive.

HDEO wouldn't be my choice. But a high quality 40-weight synthetic would probably work fine. M1 0w40, PUE 5w40, RL 5 or 10w40. I think the BMW 10w60 thing was brought on by people that track their cars, and starve the bearings for oil when doing 1.2G turns. You won't be in that situation when towing. Just keep stable oil pressure and reasonable operating temperatures. Stop every couple of hours (more often when first starting out) and check the oil and coolant level.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: ecotourist
Finally I suspect you're going to have overheating problems. BMW's cooling systems don't seem to be the greatest and with low speeds on grades and such you're not going to have as much airflow as you would at higher speeds.


My 530i has no problems with cooling capacity nor with capability at low speeds, in fact it seems a bit over-sized if anything. The problem is usually with reliability related to age, not performance.


Correct. I've discovered this is actually an issue in the winter, as mine takes quite a while to come up to temp, oil temp even longer. That was one of the reasons I was glad to be able to park it for the winters now as this is not good for the engine.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: ecotourist
Finally I suspect you're going to have overheating problems. BMW's cooling systems don't seem to be the greatest and with low speeds on grades and such you're not going to have as much airflow as you would at higher speeds.


My 530i has no problems with cooling capacity nor with capability at low speeds, in fact it seems a bit over-sized if anything. The problem is usually with reliability related to age, not performance.


Correct. I've discovered this is actually an issue in the winter, as mine takes quite a while to come up to temp, oil temp even longer. That was one of the reasons I was glad to be able to park it for the winters now as this is not good for the engine.



One thing for sure based on our newer trucks, oversized cooling system does not have to impact warm up. I don't know how they do it, but our service vans have full indicated temp so fast it is unreal, and they do it in any kind of weather. This despite an additional two gallons of extra coolant and a huge heat exchanger coupled with a gigantic radiator and fan...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

One thing for sure based on our newer trucks, oversized cooling system does not have to impact warm up. I don't know how they do it, but our service vans have full indicated temp so fast it is unreal, and they do it in any kind of weather. This despite an additional two gallons of extra coolant and a huge heat exchanger coupled with a gigantic radiator and fan...


Is the coolant temperature gauge buffered? Most new vehicles read in the dead center of the gauge from below @160F to over 230F. I wouldn't have known that my Mazdaspeed's thermostat was stuck open if it hadn't thrown a CEL. And when the t-stat stuck open on my Club Sport I wouldn't have noticed it either had I not been a typical extremely OCD car geek.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: ecotourist
Finally I suspect you're going to have overheating problems. BMW's cooling systems don't seem to be the greatest and with low speeds on grades and such you're not going to have as much airflow as you would at higher speeds.


My 530i has no problems with cooling capacity nor with capability at low speeds, in fact it seems a bit over-sized if anything. The problem is usually with reliability related to age, not performance.


Correct. I've discovered this is actually an issue in the winter, as mine takes quite a while to come up to temp, oil temp even longer. That was one of the reasons I was glad to be able to park it for the winters now as this is not good for the engine.



One thing for sure based on our newer trucks, oversized cooling system does not have to impact warm up. I don't know how they do it, but our service vans have full indicated temp so fast it is unreal, and they do it in any kind of weather. This despite an additional two gallons of extra coolant and a huge heat exchanger coupled with a gigantic radiator and fan...


Do they have mechanical or electric fans? The M5 has both. The Expedition has only a mechanical fan (and a 30-something litre cooling system along with a 4-core rad) and it takes a while to get up to temp in the winter but gets there. That is, unless it is -30C and then it will only stay at operating temperature when load is applied. If you let it idle, it sheds too much heat and the gauge creeps down a ways. I think the clutch on the fan might be starting to go south, which would definitely cause that.

The Charger, with its electric fan, gets up to temp quickly and without issue, regardless of how cold it is. I believe this is due to the lack of airflow through the rad, since the fan isn't spinning.
 
^^^Well, in the SRT the fans are not even needed above 35 or so, and regardless it still warms slowly.

The newest trucks are 3500 Gm vans (mechanical fans) with large heat exchangers and tons of extra coolant. I can't imagine what kind of a thermostat they have, but they warm up FAST. Even at near freezing temps we have full indicated temperature within a couple of miles. It's amazing to me.

Our aftermarket upfitter removes the factory thermostatic fan and puts a full centrifugal unit on in its place, too...
 
In the winter shouldn't the T-stats be closed and airflow through the rad during warmup not even matter?

Engine design, oil, coolant capacities, and how badly buffered the temp gauge is will affect warmup time.
 
My number one choice would be Amsoil 5w-40 Euro full saps. One can, 10 oz. Liqui Moly motor oil saver. Mann filter. If the electric water pump has over 75k on it, replace it and the thermostat. That would be my main concern. I could guess M1 or other 0w-40 would be fine.
 
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
In the winter shouldn't the T-stats be closed and airflow through the rad during warmup not even matter?

Engine design, oil, coolant capacities, and how badly buffered the temp gauge is will affect warmup time.


Yes, however the airflow across the engine block itself sheds heat.

The Expedition is abnormal as it has rear heat as well, which includes an entire second heater core (and all the requisite plumbing) which increases the coolant capacity significantly. So you have two blower motors pulling heat from at least 25L of coolant. The volume of coolant itself is an issue, despite it not circulating through the main rad. It is instead, circulating through both heater cores and being cooled by both blower motors, pulling the heat out of it to heat the inside of the vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
In the winter shouldn't the T-stats be closed and airflow through the rad during warmup not even matter?

Engine design, oil, coolant capacities, and how badly buffered the temp gauge is will affect warmup time.


Yes, however the airflow across the engine block itself sheds heat.

The Expedition is abnormal as it has rear heat as well, which includes an entire second heater core (and all the requisite plumbing) which increases the coolant capacity significantly. So you have two blower motors pulling heat from at least 25L of coolant. The volume of coolant itself is an issue, despite it not circulating through the main rad. It is instead, circulating through both heater cores and being cooled by both blower motors, pulling the heat out of it to heat the inside of the vehicle.

I guess that what you have to do, to get 10 mpg in town!
wink.gif
Just ribbing you, but I guess it all does add up. Just getting the drivetrain and cooling system up to temperature from -20 is a fair amount of energy.
I think the mechanical fans do hurt warm up as well, the Tracker has never warmed up quickly and I think the fan always turning it part of that. It does also have an oversize heater core, and it by itself can pull down the engine temp at idle.
 
GC is a plenty stout oil, and you've been using it for a while, so stick with it.

I'd worry the most about the clutch...
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
In the winter shouldn't the T-stats be closed and airflow through the rad during warmup not even matter?

Engine design, oil, coolant capacities, and how badly buffered the temp gauge is will affect warmup time.


Yes, however the airflow across the engine block itself sheds heat.

The Expedition is abnormal as it has rear heat as well, which includes an entire second heater core (and all the requisite plumbing) which increases the coolant capacity significantly. So you have two blower motors pulling heat from at least 25L of coolant. The volume of coolant itself is an issue, despite it not circulating through the main rad. It is instead, circulating through both heater cores and being cooled by both blower motors, pulling the heat out of it to heat the inside of the vehicle.

I guess that what you have to do, to get 10 mpg in town!
wink.gif
Just ribbing you, but I guess it all does add up. Just getting the drivetrain and cooling system up to temperature from -20 is a fair amount of energy.
I think the mechanical fans do hurt warm up as well, the Tracker has never warmed up quickly and I think the fan always turning it part of that. It does also have an oversize heater core, and it by itself can pull down the engine temp at idle.


10? you are being generous, LOL!

I've actually had the benefit of seeing the difference first hand between a mechanical fan setup and an electric one. The Lincoln originally had a mechanical clutch fan on it but I converted it to a Mark VIII E-fan. The difference in warm-up time was massive, particularly in the winter. Which is why the Charger developing heat so quickly compared to the bimmer isn't surprising to me
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Aren't IndyCars required to use off-the-shelf oil?

Dependent on what shelf you are referring, doubt you're gonna find it at the local Wally World...
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
In the winter shouldn't the T-stats be closed and airflow through the rad during warmup not even matter?

Engine design, oil, coolant capacities, and how badly buffered the temp gauge is will affect warmup time.


Yes, however the airflow across the engine block itself sheds heat.


I can confirm that for an absolute fact.

Installed the thermostat on the inlet side of a number of my cars, so that the circulating water has to reach thermostat crack point, and only then will dribble mixed hot water into the engine.

versus the "normal" system where the thermostat circulates water, then dumps a block full of hot water into the radiator before the cold water gets to it.

In winter, the radiator after my 25km commute was stone cold to the touch, the engine being able to dissipate the heat. with the upper hose t/stat, the radiator would be too hot to touch.

Sent one to Gary Allan, who confirmed same on his jeep.

I know that many cars control both ends of the cooling system, my E30 did, but the cold side was more an adjustable baffle, rather than providing an off function as well.
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Dependent on what shelf you are referring, doubt you're gonna find it at the local Wally World...

I already did post an older picture of what seems to be M1 0w-40 being poured into an Indy. Whether or not that's currently the case remains to be seen. And yes, technically, Mobil 1 racing oils are off the shelf oils, just not seen on most shelves.

I doubt that much beyond Formula 1 teams have the resources to get major oil companies to produce special blends solely for them.
 
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