New Continental ExtremeContact DWS06

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I Run Conti ExtremeWinterContact in winter; awesome tire. Have used Nokians. Blizzaks and Coopers in the past. Conti's are better than all of them except on glare ice/ freezing Rain, where they are about 90% vs Blizzaks.
 
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While I usually run dedicated snows, living on the edge of the "lake effect" snow belt near Syracuse NY I've recently had experience with DWS. I bought a '95 AUDI S6 Avant w/fresh set of DWS in Jan '12 in Ohio. Not a good tire in real snow/lce conditions IMHO and I replaced them w/Nokian Hakkapelitta R2's soon after returning to NY. Run the DWS as Summers until I sold car. I bought '06 A6 Avant for wife and put R2's on it. Liked it so much I bought another '07 A6 Avant and didn't feel I needed two snowmobiles so I put Nokian WRG3's on it for year round use. I still had the '95 w/DWS on it for comparision. The DWS don't hold a candle to the WRG3's in snow/ice IMHO. Both are rated AS but Nokian excels in winter connditions. Not sure how DWS06 will compare. In my opinion Nokians are worth the money if you see severe winter conditions. I'm amazed at how close the WRG3's are to the R2's also!
 
WR G3 sports snowflake/mountain logo on its sidewall unlike DWS.
It is meant to be better in winter.

Krzys
 
Originally Posted By: krzyss
WR G3 sports snowflake/mountain logo on its sidewall unlike DWS.
It is meant to be better in winter.

Krzys

Nokian WR G3 is DEDICATED winter tire! Comparing DWS with WR G3 is like comparing apples and oranges, maybe even worse.
 
I loved my previous DWSs. When it comes time to get another set of All-seasons, I'll be considering these as well.

I thought the previous gen handled phenominally in the snow for an all season tire. There are a lot of factors that go into a tire hooking up in snowy conditions though.. Like one poster said, weight compared to drive wheels, width of driven wheels.. It could still be a very good tire but the combination just doesn't work..
 
Originally Posted By: ccap41
I loved my previous DWSs. When it comes time to get another set of All-seasons, I'll be considering these as well.

I thought the previous gen handled phenominally in the snow for an all season tire. There are a lot of factors that go into a tire hooking up in snowy conditions though.. Like one poster said, weight compared to drive wheels, width of driven wheels.. It could still be a very good tire but the combination just doesn't work..

I'm 180 degrees opposite with you.

I had it on my E430 some years ago, it was terrible on highway speed north of 75-80 MPH after only few thousands miles. On wet surface it could not track straight north of 70 MPH.

The second tier tires such as Falken, Kumho ... were stable north of 100 MPH on dry and 80-85 MPH on wet.

I wouldn't have DWS on any of my cars even if it is totally free.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: krzyss
WR G3 sports snowflake/mountain logo on its sidewall unlike DWS.
It is meant to be better in winter.

Krzys

Nokian WR G3 is DEDICATED winter tire! Comparing DWS with WR G3 is like comparing apples and oranges, maybe even worse.


Apples to Oranges?

Nokian refers to the WRG3 as an "All Weather" tire
http://www.nokiantires.com/summer-tires/nokian-wrg3/

Continental refers to the DWS06 as "All Season" In North America when I think All-Season that includes SNOW/ICE!


http://www.continentaltire.com/product/extremecontact-dws06-19550zr16-84w


It's clear that Nokian is the over achiever Snow/Ice wise having that little snowflake applied means something I guess.

Nokian makes 4 other tires for Snow/Ice duty Hakkapelitta R2 & studded or studdable Hakka 7 & 8. also the "economy" Nordman 5. BTW the Hakka 7 is available unstudded for those not wanting or allowed studs. They're cheaper than the R2. I've talked to long time Nokian dealers & Nokian tech support who have all told me that the R2 is superior to the unstudded Hakka 7 in almost all conditions except perhaps deep snow.
My guess is the DWS06 will give slightly better handling than WRG3 in dry/rain conditions but fall way short in Snow/Ice!
For handling the best handling snow tire out there is Vredestein Extreme Contact but not even close to Hakka R2 in slippery stuff. BTW I've run all sorts of AS/Snows in 45 yrs 40-45K annually in snow belt & nothing comes close to Nokians in the area of hydro-planing resistance which ,to me, is one of the most critical areas of tire performance! Rant Off! YMMV
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: ccap41
I loved my previous DWSs. When it comes time to get another set of All-seasons, I'll be considering these as well.

I thought the previous gen handled phenominally in the snow for an all season tire. There are a lot of factors that go into a tire hooking up in snowy conditions though.. Like one poster said, weight compared to drive wheels, width of driven wheels.. It could still be a very good tire but the combination just doesn't work..

I'm 180 degrees opposite with you.

I had it on my E430 some years ago, it was terrible on highway speed north of 75-80 MPH after only few thousands miles. On wet surface it could not track straight north of 70 MPH.

The second tier tires such as Falken, Kumho ... were stable north of 100 MPH on dry and 80-85 MPH on wet.

I wouldn't have DWS on any of my cars even if it is totally free.


Well.. I guess I should have stated that I only had the car for about 5000 miles after I put them on.

Maybe they would have went to junk after that but they felt fantastic to me. I was also coming from a set of Yokohama/General mix. The person before me was one of those people.. I also never really pushed the tires. I'm not too agressive of a driver. There was the occasional 0-100 jaunt but I never cornered very hard or maintained 100mph.
 
Originally Posted By: stuffinder
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: krzyss
WR G3 sports snowflake/mountain logo on its sidewall unlike DWS.
It is meant to be better in winter.

Krzys

Nokian WR G3 is DEDICATED winter tire! Comparing DWS with WR G3 is like comparing apples and oranges, maybe even worse.


Apples to Oranges?

Nokian refers to the WRG3 as an "All Weather" tire
http://www.nokiantires.com/summer-tires/nokian-wrg3/

Continental refers to the DWS06 as "All Season" In North America when I think All-Season that includes SNOW/ICE!


http://www.continentaltire.com/product/extremecontact-dws06-19550zr16-84w


It's clear that Nokian is the over achiever Snow/Ice wise having that little snowflake applied means something I guess.

Nokian makes 4 other tires for Snow/Ice duty Hakkapelitta R2 & studded or studdable Hakka 7 & 8. also the "economy" Nordman 5. BTW the Hakka 7 is available unstudded for those not wanting or allowed studs. They're cheaper than the R2. I've talked to long time Nokian dealers & Nokian tech support who have all told me that the R2 is superior to the unstudded Hakka 7 in almost all conditions except perhaps deep snow.
My guess is the DWS06 will give slightly better handling than WRG3 in dry/rain conditions but fall way short in Snow/Ice!
For handling the best handling snow tire out there is Vredestein Extreme Contact but not even close to Hakka R2 in slippery stuff. BTW I've run all sorts of AS/Snows in 45 yrs 40-45K annually in snow belt & nothing comes close to Nokians in the area of hydro-planing resistance which ,to me, is one of the most critical areas of tire performance! Rant Off! YMMV

Nokian can claim whatever they want, their tire has snow flake on the sidewall, which indicates dedicated snow tire.
This is typical [censored] by manufacturers. The tread design clearly indicates that tire is made first of all for winter driving. Of course, you can use them on 140 degrees weather. Question is with what kind of performance and how long they would last.
My brother had them on 525xd (E60). Nothing special, there are much better winter tires. They cannot go against best Continental winter tires such as TS 850, which is unfortunately not available on NA market.
 
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Originally Posted By: edyvw

Nokian can claim whatever they want, their tire has snow flake on the sidewall, which indicates dedicated snow tire. This is typical [censored] by manufacturers. The tread design clearly indicates that tire is made first of all for winter driving.


The snowflake symbol is the result of a performance-based test. It is not indicative of any type of construction, wear level, tread design, temperature limit, or any manufacturer marketing. There is nothing preventing any tire from wearing the snowflake except for it's actual performance in the snow:

Quote:
In order to meet this standard, tires must be tested using an American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) testing procedure described in “RMA Definition for Passenger and Light Truck Tires for use in Severe Snow Conditions”. Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using the ASTM F-1805 snow traction test with equivalent percentage loads.


Snowflake does not equal dedicated winter tire. There are many tires out there that aren't winter tires that wear the snowflake. Three that I have personally owned:

BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO
Dunlop Radial Rover RVXT
Goodyear Fortera TripleTread

Are some tires better than other when it comes to snow? Of course. The snowflake indicates that a tire has passed a test that indicates it performance better in the snow than a tire that didn't. It's like passing the bar to become a lawyer. Some lawyers are better than others, but they've all passed the bar and any lawyer that's passed the bar is probably a better choice than having your yokel brother-in-law represent you at trial.
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Nokian can claim whatever they want, their tire has snow flake on the sidewall, which indicates dedicated snow tire. This is typical [censored] by manufacturers. The tread design clearly indicates that tire is made first of all for winter driving.


The snowflake symbol is the result of a performance-based test. It is not indicative of any type of construction, wear level, tread design, temperature limit, or any manufacturer marketing. There is nothing preventing any tire from wearing the snowflake except for it's actual performance in the snow:

Quote:
In order to meet this standard, tires must be tested using an American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) testing procedure described in “RMA Definition for Passenger and Light Truck Tires for use in Severe Snow Conditions”. Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using the ASTM F-1805 snow traction test with equivalent percentage loads.


Snowflake does not equal dedicated winter tire. There are many tires out there that aren't winter tires that wear the snowflake. Three that I have personally owned:

BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO
Dunlop Radial Rover RVXT
Goodyear Fortera TripleTread

Are some tires better than other when it comes to snow? Of course. The snowflake indicates that a tire has passed a test that indicates it performance better in the snow than a tire that didn't. It's like passing the bar to become a lawyer. Some lawyers are better than others, but they've all passed the bar and any lawyer that's passed the bar is probably a better choice than having your yokel brother-in-law represent you at trial.

Snowflake was introduced bcs a lot of manufacturers claimed for their All Season tires to be winter tires, which was not true. Apparently Nokian now claims that their WR-G3 or whatever number is all weather, going from claiming it is strictly winter tire, to it could be all weather tire. Yes, winter tires could be driven in all conditions. I am saying, comparing DWS and this Nokian tire is ridiculous since this Nokian will have by far better winter performance (and their design indicates that) while DWS will be MUCH better in wet and dry performance, especially on temperatures above 50 degrees.
Who ever compares these two tires is really laughable, it is like comparing DWS with Dunlop Wintersport 4D.
If you want to compare Continental to this Nokian tire, compare Continental TS 800 series.
 
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Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Nokian can claim whatever they want, their tire has snow flake on the sidewall, which indicates dedicated snow tire. This is typical [censored] by manufacturers. The tread design clearly indicates that tire is made first of all for winter driving.


The snowflake symbol is the result of a performance-based test. It is not indicative of any type of construction, wear level, tread design, temperature limit, or any manufacturer marketing. There is nothing preventing any tire from wearing the snowflake except for it's actual performance in the snow:

Quote:
In order to meet this standard, tires must be tested using an American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) testing procedure described in “RMA Definition for Passenger and Light Truck Tires for use in Severe Snow Conditions”. Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using the ASTM F-1805 snow traction test with equivalent percentage loads.


Snowflake does not equal dedicated winter tire. There are many tires out there that aren't winter tires that wear the snowflake. Three that I have personally owned:

BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO
Dunlop Radial Rover RVXT
Goodyear Fortera TripleTread

Are some tires better than other when it comes to snow? Of course. The snowflake indicates that a tire has passed a test that indicates it performance better in the snow than a tire that didn't. It's like passing the bar to become a lawyer. Some lawyers are better than others, but they've all passed the bar and any lawyer that's passed the bar is probably a better choice than having your yokel brother-in-law represent you at trial.


Truck AT tires pass the test by accident.
Passenger and truck winter tires pass the test by design.
There are no passenger AT tires, that I am aware of.

Krzys

http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/chads-742-...nowflake-symbol

"While some sizes earn the mountain/snowflake designation, they do not equal the snow and ice traction of true winter tire."
 
Quote:
In order to meet this standard, tires must be tested using an American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) testing procedure described in “RMA Definition for Passenger and Light Truck Tires for use in Severe Snow Conditions”. Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using the ASTM F-1805 snow traction test with equivalent percentage loads.


Does anyone know the identity (manufacturer and model) of the ASTM reference tire?
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Quote:
In order to meet this standard, tires must be tested using an American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) testing procedure described in “RMA Definition for Passenger and Light Truck Tires for use in Severe Snow Conditions”. Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using the ASTM F-1805 snow traction test with equivalent percentage loads.


Does anyone know the identity (manufacturer and model) of the ASTM reference tire?


It's a special Uniroyal tire that is produced in small quantities especially for testing purposes. It is highly scrutinized - both during and after manufacture - to insure each batch is as close to the same as the previous batch. After manufacture, they are carefully stored so they don't age very rapidly.

No, you can not buy it on the open market. I forget how people that do testing obtain them, but if you are in that part of the business, you can figure it out. I suspect you have to go directly to Uniroyal (or Michelin).
 
Capri, do you know generally what size that tire is? Is it close to an older common size, like a 195/75R14 or similar? Or has the size of the reference tire changed over time to adapt to market changes?
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
………...It's a special Uniroyal tire that is produced in small quantities especially for testing purposes………….


Do you know if the tread design is a dedicated winter design, suitable for snow?

Since this is the reference tire that forms the basis for the Snowflake Symbol, I am wondering if the tire "sets the bar high", or "sets the bar low", for snow traction.
 
I found a photo of the reference tire, in ASTM E1136-93 (2003)

" 3.1 The standard reference test tire shall be size P195/ 75R14, current technology All Season tread design steel-belted radial (see Fig. 1 and Fig. 2). "

http://library.sut.ac.th:8080/astm/cd09022005/PDF/E1136.pdf

Looking at the tread design, I think it sets the bar low, for achieving a snowflake approval.

Note: the document above is dated 2003, so I am not sure if the tire pictured is still the reference tire for 2015. The latest document is ASTM E1136-14, but I could not find a free copy on the web.
 
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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Capri, do you know generally what size that tire is? Is it close to an older common size, like a 195/75R14 or similar? Or has the size of the reference tire changed over time to adapt to market changes?


It looks like there are now 2 sizes of the reference tire:
195/75R14
225/60R16

http://www.astmnewsroom.org/default.aspx?pageid=800

"………………..According to Stan Lew, manager, Industry Standards and Government Regulations for Michelin North America, Inc., and F09.20 member, F 2493 will co-exist with another ASTM standard, E 1136, Specification for a Radial Standard Reference Test Tire. While that standard, which was originally published in 1986, deals with another SRTT, tire size P195/75R14, Lew says that changing times and technology created a need for a P225/60R16 tire specification………………...

…………...F 2493 is a specification for a tire size, P225/60R16, a SRTT that is currently only being produced by BF Goodrich Tire Manufacturing. This SRTT is primarily used for braking traction, snow traction and wear performance evaluations, but can also be used for other tests that require a reference tire, including pavement roughness and noise evaluations…………………"
 
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Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Capri, do you know generally what size that tire is? Is it close to an older common size, like a 195/75R14 or similar? Or has the size of the reference tire changed over time to adapt to market changes?


It looks like there are now 2 sizes of the reference tire:
195/75R14
225/60R16


Thanks; lucky guess on my part!!!
 
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