I think the Motul would also cost you about $80 for 4L which would probably be what it would cost to import Ultra Next (or 0w-16 Ultra Green). I too would definitely be interested in comparable PCMOs available here in the states.
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2015 Honda Fit - Honda Ultra NEXT 0W-8 - 5,800 mi
- Thread starter fourside
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I mean, I take it Sustina 0w-20 is one of the lightest "0w-20" oils on the US market for PCMOs. I forget what the relative advantages of M1 0w-20 AFE vs Toyota's 0w-20 are between those two but aside from those perhaps Pennzoil's Platinum/Ultra PurePlus line of 0w-20's could be thinner at operating temp.
The Amsoil and Red Line oils have a higher TBN for longer use but a thicker oil at operating temperature as a result of a formulated long-drain oil. Yes, more stable/longer-lasting base-stock but not the desired lighter at operating temp.
FWIW, my BIL's Fit '07 Fit Sport with now over 225k had a GREAT couple OCIs on M1 AFE 0w-20. The most recent one being 21k miles and the TBN made it (1 quart top off 3k b4 the end of the change).
The Amsoil and Red Line oils have a higher TBN for longer use but a thicker oil at operating temperature as a result of a formulated long-drain oil. Yes, more stable/longer-lasting base-stock but not the desired lighter at operating temp.
FWIW, my BIL's Fit '07 Fit Sport with now over 225k had a GREAT couple OCIs on M1 AFE 0w-20. The most recent one being 21k miles and the TBN made it (1 quart top off 3k b4 the end of the change).
i saw a new Fit today on the road. nice, but is it smaller than before? what is the recommended oil in US, 0w20?
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
i saw a new Fit today on the road. nice, but is it smaller than before? what is the recommended oil in US, 0w20?
^5w-20 is on the cap of mine and the only grade mentioned in my owner's manual (though, I'd be curious what the FSM says instead?)
I don't know if the newer one's specify 0w-20 specifically, but generally those tend to be a lighter oil by a small amount at operating temp and of course the 'superior' properties in extreme cold. Maybe 0w-20 availability to 'most' people vs 5w-20 is why the 5w-20 recommendation instead of listing 0w-20 at all.
i saw a new Fit today on the road. nice, but is it smaller than before? what is the recommended oil in US, 0w20?
^5w-20 is on the cap of mine and the only grade mentioned in my owner's manual (though, I'd be curious what the FSM says instead?)
I don't know if the newer one's specify 0w-20 specifically, but generally those tend to be a lighter oil by a small amount at operating temp and of course the 'superior' properties in extreme cold. Maybe 0w-20 availability to 'most' people vs 5w-20 is why the 5w-20 recommendation instead of listing 0w-20 at all.
Originally Posted By: fourside
Originally Posted By: wi11iam
interesting. where can you buy this oil out of curiosity?
Unfortunately it's a Japanese domestic market oil for the time being, and getting it over to the U.S. probably would make it cost-prohibitive.
So is the new engine in the US Honda Fit designed to run this oil?
Originally Posted By: wi11iam
interesting. where can you buy this oil out of curiosity?
Unfortunately it's a Japanese domestic market oil for the time being, and getting it over to the U.S. probably would make it cost-prohibitive.
So is the new engine in the US Honda Fit designed to run this oil?
Yes, both the JDM and USDM Fit share the same L15B engine. The JDM also gets some other engine options, all of which are approved for this oil.
Keep in mind that Honda has also alluded in the past to using ultra-low viscosity oils as FF in some USDM Hondas.
Keep in mind that Honda has also alluded in the past to using ultra-low viscosity oils as FF in some USDM Hondas.
Originally Posted By: fourside
Yes, both the JDM and USDM Fit share the same L15B engine. The JDM also gets some other engine options, all of which are approved for this oil.
Keep in mind that Honda has also alluded in the past to using ultra-low viscosity oils as FF in some USDM Hondas.
I hear the L15As are even easier on oil. I wonder if these older Fit's could run this oil as well?
Yes, both the JDM and USDM Fit share the same L15B engine. The JDM also gets some other engine options, all of which are approved for this oil.
Keep in mind that Honda has also alluded in the past to using ultra-low viscosity oils as FF in some USDM Hondas.
I hear the L15As are even easier on oil. I wonder if these older Fit's could run this oil as well?
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: fourside
Yes, both the JDM and USDM Fit share the same L15B engine. The JDM also gets some other engine options, all of which are approved for this oil.
Keep in mind that Honda has also alluded in the past to using ultra-low viscosity oils as FF in some USDM Hondas.
I hear the L15As are even easier on oil. I wonder if these older Fit's could run this oil as well?
Per this link, it would look as if Honda Ultra Green (0W-16) is safe to use in at least the 2nd gen Fits with 1.3L engines. I don't see any mention of the L15A. If you were to experiment, I definitely wouldn't start with the Ultra Next, given that it's designed for only some of the very newest engines (even though the L15A and B are very closely related).
Originally Posted By: fourside
Yes, both the JDM and USDM Fit share the same L15B engine. The JDM also gets some other engine options, all of which are approved for this oil.
Keep in mind that Honda has also alluded in the past to using ultra-low viscosity oils as FF in some USDM Hondas.
I hear the L15As are even easier on oil. I wonder if these older Fit's could run this oil as well?
Per this link, it would look as if Honda Ultra Green (0W-16) is safe to use in at least the 2nd gen Fits with 1.3L engines. I don't see any mention of the L15A. If you were to experiment, I definitely wouldn't start with the Ultra Next, given that it's designed for only some of the very newest engines (even though the L15A and B are very closely related).
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Originally Posted By: fourside
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: fourside
Yes, both the JDM and USDM Fit share the same L15B engine. The JDM also gets some other engine options, all of which are approved for this oil.
Keep in mind that Honda has also alluded in the past to using ultra-low viscosity oils as FF in some USDM Hondas.
I hear the L15As are even easier on oil. I wonder if these older Fit's could run this oil as well?
Per this link, it would look as if Honda Ultra Green (0W-16) is safe to use in at least the 2nd gen Fits with 1.3L engines. I don't see any mention of the L15A. If you were to experiment, I definitely wouldn't start with the Ultra Next, given that it's designed for only some of the very newest engines (even though the L15A and B are very closely related).
I see. Considering the newer L15B engines are harder on oil arguably since the are designed for more performance than the L15A then I don't see why the 0w-8 Honda NEXT couldn't be used necessarily. I do agree with being conservative and trying the 0w-16 first. This is mainly my BIL's approach though. I don't think I'll go with anything thinner than 0w-20 in my car.
It makes you wonder what specifically is the inhibiting difference in design between the two; if there exists one that permits use in L15B but not in the L15A, or was it simply a choice to not care to include the L15A in their testing.
Say Honda NEXT 0w-8 was formulated/specified around their development of the L15B, but that doesn't necessarily mean the L15A can't also use it unless explicitly stated. I'd want to actually ask Honda Japan.
lol.
...but without knowing those differences it is a gamble. I think 0w-16 might be the most I'd try and I consider that brave. Not conservative according to the info, without further real knowledge about the differences in these engines.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: fourside
Yes, both the JDM and USDM Fit share the same L15B engine. The JDM also gets some other engine options, all of which are approved for this oil.
Keep in mind that Honda has also alluded in the past to using ultra-low viscosity oils as FF in some USDM Hondas.
I hear the L15As are even easier on oil. I wonder if these older Fit's could run this oil as well?
Per this link, it would look as if Honda Ultra Green (0W-16) is safe to use in at least the 2nd gen Fits with 1.3L engines. I don't see any mention of the L15A. If you were to experiment, I definitely wouldn't start with the Ultra Next, given that it's designed for only some of the very newest engines (even though the L15A and B are very closely related).
I see. Considering the newer L15B engines are harder on oil arguably since the are designed for more performance than the L15A then I don't see why the 0w-8 Honda NEXT couldn't be used necessarily. I do agree with being conservative and trying the 0w-16 first. This is mainly my BIL's approach though. I don't think I'll go with anything thinner than 0w-20 in my car.
It makes you wonder what specifically is the inhibiting difference in design between the two; if there exists one that permits use in L15B but not in the L15A, or was it simply a choice to not care to include the L15A in their testing.
Say Honda NEXT 0w-8 was formulated/specified around their development of the L15B, but that doesn't necessarily mean the L15A can't also use it unless explicitly stated. I'd want to actually ask Honda Japan.
...but without knowing those differences it is a gamble. I think 0w-16 might be the most I'd try and I consider that brave. Not conservative according to the info, without further real knowledge about the differences in these engines.
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Just curious, what makes you say the L15B is harder on oil? Just curious as I haven't seen any mention of that before, though it certainly could be the case.
I agree. I personally wouldn't use even the 0W-16 in an L15A-equipped car unless Honda specifically signed off on it. Being that it seems they recommend it for the 1.3 engines in the 2nd gen Fit but don't for the 1.5, it would seem there would have to be some difference between them.
I agree. I personally wouldn't use even the 0W-16 in an L15A-equipped car unless Honda specifically signed off on it. Being that it seems they recommend it for the 1.3 engines in the 2nd gen Fit but don't for the 1.5, it would seem there would have to be some difference between them.
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Originally Posted By: fourside
Just curious, what makes you say the L15B is harder on oil? Just curious as I haven't seen any mention of that before, though it certainly could be the case.
I agree. I personally wouldn't use even the 0W-16 in an L15A-equipped car unless Honda specifically signed off on it. Being that it seems they recommend it for the 1.3 engines in the 2nd gen Fit but don't for the 1.5, it would seem there would have to be some difference between them.
I could have been misinformed or recalling incorrectly as the scope of what I'm thinking is in terms of USDM sold Fits with the different engine types from the 07/08, then 09 and newer on to the newest models. This is because I'm having to get up to speed on the variations after an unplanned convert from my previous vehicle and I've relied on my BIL for info in passing on the engines. He only gave what he knew which was more surface information I suppose.
It seems your vehicle may be exclusively different in key areas and the difference could be with the camshaft/valve-timing control and the overall engine management system differences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_L_engine#L15B_EARTH_DREAMS_.28i-VTEC.29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_advanced_technology#Earth_Dreams_Technology
^Your Fit? vs mine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_L_engine#L15A1_VTEC
So apparently, the argument seems to be the B engine has more output so in theory 'could be' harder on oil. However, this does not mean a change in design creates a need for a better oil. I'd only 'perhaps' say even if yours can consistently run the 0w8 long-term I'd imagine it may not be a good idea to run as long on the intervals. While it's been shown the L15A1 engines can go on really long intervals mileage wise, it may require still to stay in the SAE 20 grade.
Just curious, what makes you say the L15B is harder on oil? Just curious as I haven't seen any mention of that before, though it certainly could be the case.
I agree. I personally wouldn't use even the 0W-16 in an L15A-equipped car unless Honda specifically signed off on it. Being that it seems they recommend it for the 1.3 engines in the 2nd gen Fit but don't for the 1.5, it would seem there would have to be some difference between them.
I could have been misinformed or recalling incorrectly as the scope of what I'm thinking is in terms of USDM sold Fits with the different engine types from the 07/08, then 09 and newer on to the newest models. This is because I'm having to get up to speed on the variations after an unplanned convert from my previous vehicle and I've relied on my BIL for info in passing on the engines. He only gave what he knew which was more surface information I suppose.
It seems your vehicle may be exclusively different in key areas and the difference could be with the camshaft/valve-timing control and the overall engine management system differences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_L_engine#L15B_EARTH_DREAMS_.28i-VTEC.29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_advanced_technology#Earth_Dreams_Technology
^Your Fit? vs mine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_L_engine#L15A1_VTEC
So apparently, the argument seems to be the B engine has more output so in theory 'could be' harder on oil. However, this does not mean a change in design creates a need for a better oil. I'd only 'perhaps' say even if yours can consistently run the 0w8 long-term I'd imagine it may not be a good idea to run as long on the intervals. While it's been shown the L15A1 engines can go on really long intervals mileage wise, it may require still to stay in the SAE 20 grade.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: fourside
Just curious, what makes you say the L15B is harder on oil? Just curious as I haven't seen any mention of that before, though it certainly could be the case.
I agree. I personally wouldn't use even the 0W-16 in an L15A-equipped car unless Honda specifically signed off on it. Being that it seems they recommend it for the 1.3 engines in the 2nd gen Fit but don't for the 1.5, it would seem there would have to be some difference between them.
I could have been misinformed or recalling incorrectly as the scope of what I'm thinking is in terms of USDM sold Fits with the different engine types from the 07/08, then 09 and newer on to the newest models. This is because I'm having to get up to speed on the variations after an unplanned convert from my previous vehicle and I've relied on my BIL for info in passing on the engines. He only gave what he knew which was more surface information I suppose.
It seems your vehicle may be exclusively different in key areas and the difference could be with the camshaft/valve-timing control and the overall engine management system differences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_L_engine#L15B_EARTH_DREAMS_.28i-VTEC.29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_advanced_technology#Earth_Dreams_Technology
^Your Fit? vs mine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_L_engine#L15A1_VTEC
So apparently, the argument seems to be the B engine has more output so in theory 'could be' harder on oil. However, this does not mean a change in design creates a need for a better oil. I'd only 'perhaps' say even if yours can consistently run the 0w8 long-term I'd imagine it may not be a good idea to run as long on the intervals. While it's been shown the L15A1 engines can go on really long intervals mileage wise, it may require still to stay in the SAE 20 grade.
The new engines employing "extensive friction reduction" is probably the difference, though I don't pretend to be an expert.
As far as extended drains go, that's definitely not my biggest concern with this stuff. It will be interesting to see how well it holds up compared with the MM's recommendations though - I'll be satisfied with its intervals if it seems to line up pretty well. If its life seems to exceed the MM, that'll just be a bonus. I'll find out at some point! I do wonder whether the MM is calibrated differently between the two markets.
Originally Posted By: fourside
Just curious, what makes you say the L15B is harder on oil? Just curious as I haven't seen any mention of that before, though it certainly could be the case.
I agree. I personally wouldn't use even the 0W-16 in an L15A-equipped car unless Honda specifically signed off on it. Being that it seems they recommend it for the 1.3 engines in the 2nd gen Fit but don't for the 1.5, it would seem there would have to be some difference between them.
I could have been misinformed or recalling incorrectly as the scope of what I'm thinking is in terms of USDM sold Fits with the different engine types from the 07/08, then 09 and newer on to the newest models. This is because I'm having to get up to speed on the variations after an unplanned convert from my previous vehicle and I've relied on my BIL for info in passing on the engines. He only gave what he knew which was more surface information I suppose.
It seems your vehicle may be exclusively different in key areas and the difference could be with the camshaft/valve-timing control and the overall engine management system differences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_L_engine#L15B_EARTH_DREAMS_.28i-VTEC.29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_advanced_technology#Earth_Dreams_Technology
^Your Fit? vs mine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_L_engine#L15A1_VTEC
So apparently, the argument seems to be the B engine has more output so in theory 'could be' harder on oil. However, this does not mean a change in design creates a need for a better oil. I'd only 'perhaps' say even if yours can consistently run the 0w8 long-term I'd imagine it may not be a good idea to run as long on the intervals. While it's been shown the L15A1 engines can go on really long intervals mileage wise, it may require still to stay in the SAE 20 grade.
The new engines employing "extensive friction reduction" is probably the difference, though I don't pretend to be an expert.
As far as extended drains go, that's definitely not my biggest concern with this stuff. It will be interesting to see how well it holds up compared with the MM's recommendations though - I'll be satisfied with its intervals if it seems to line up pretty well. If its life seems to exceed the MM, that'll just be a bonus. I'll find out at some point! I do wonder whether the MM is calibrated differently between the two markets.
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^Well, newer Fits may have a better way of monitoring the oil. The MM on this one is more or less a mileage dummy in that it will report to change consistently between 7k-8k miles if I recall what I was told. Super conservative when you consider my BIL reset his MM twice and the UOA still was superb with TBN remaining.
I'm new to it and will be monitoring what it says during my own uses.
I was originally a bit disappointed by the 6.8 TBN in the VOA but seeing how it only dropped to 5.0 after 5800 miles, I am quite impressed. Thanks for posting this UOA as well as the VOA!
An excellent report.
Good to see this oil is very shear stable with only a 4% viscosity lose despite the presence of some fuel.
Glad to hear you had no measurable oil consumption.
As I mentioned in your VOA I suspect Honda Ultra NEXT is a 0W-12 as I doubt the HTHS viscosity is below 2.0cP. Also in a recent discussion I had with a domestic oil formulator he made reference to this oil and said it was a 0W-12.
It's unfortunate your Fit doesn't have oil gauges as this would tell you in terms of actual operational viscosity how light this oil is vs the lightest 0W-20, Sustina. You could still have you're oil pressure checked when the engine is fully hot to see how it compares to the Honda test spec'.
Thanks for the report.
Good to see this oil is very shear stable with only a 4% viscosity lose despite the presence of some fuel.
Glad to hear you had no measurable oil consumption.
As I mentioned in your VOA I suspect Honda Ultra NEXT is a 0W-12 as I doubt the HTHS viscosity is below 2.0cP. Also in a recent discussion I had with a domestic oil formulator he made reference to this oil and said it was a 0W-12.
It's unfortunate your Fit doesn't have oil gauges as this would tell you in terms of actual operational viscosity how light this oil is vs the lightest 0W-20, Sustina. You could still have you're oil pressure checked when the engine is fully hot to see how it compares to the Honda test spec'.
Thanks for the report.
Originally Posted By: raytseng
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
"Hard spirited driving" in a FIT? ROF.....
Hard spirited driving is only easily obtained on a small powered car like the FIT, because you'll be going with the pedal to the metal (aka hard driving) just to get to 70 or 80mph or if climbing up even up a moderate hill, hoping to keep up with traffic; and then working to take your turns well just to maintain momentum.
If you're ROFLing because you own a high HP car, in reality, you're never every going to be able to regularly drive that to even 25% of it's ability on public roads; because you'll be at the limits of safety and prudence. You'll be at the speedlimit at like 1800rpm in 2nd gear in 2seconds and then just puttering along at 10% throttle.
Many enthusiasts appreciate the "entertainment" and the increased difficulty to drive a low-powered car at it's limits in regular driving;
versus a higher powered car that you can't do anything with.
Eh, I tend to disagree with the first paragraph.
1.2L 16V, 86HP, 130k miles and not a single problem even of roads without speed limits. Goes like a 2.0L sports sedan HP per lbs-wise but handles like a go-kart. And does 40 MPG in the city, too.
Small cars are waaay underrated. If you do the math, a small car is both much more fun to drive* and saves you money while occasionally renting a truck, transporter, eighteen-wheeler or road train when needed.
I wholeheartedly agree with the last paragraph, though. But not that I wouldn't appreciate a Sunday drive in a Viper.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
"Hard spirited driving" in a FIT? ROF.....
Hard spirited driving is only easily obtained on a small powered car like the FIT, because you'll be going with the pedal to the metal (aka hard driving) just to get to 70 or 80mph or if climbing up even up a moderate hill, hoping to keep up with traffic; and then working to take your turns well just to maintain momentum.
If you're ROFLing because you own a high HP car, in reality, you're never every going to be able to regularly drive that to even 25% of it's ability on public roads; because you'll be at the limits of safety and prudence. You'll be at the speedlimit at like 1800rpm in 2nd gear in 2seconds and then just puttering along at 10% throttle.
Many enthusiasts appreciate the "entertainment" and the increased difficulty to drive a low-powered car at it's limits in regular driving;
versus a higher powered car that you can't do anything with.
Eh, I tend to disagree with the first paragraph.
1.2L 16V, 86HP, 130k miles and not a single problem even of roads without speed limits. Goes like a 2.0L sports sedan HP per lbs-wise but handles like a go-kart. And does 40 MPG in the city, too.
Small cars are waaay underrated. If you do the math, a small car is both much more fun to drive* and saves you money while occasionally renting a truck, transporter, eighteen-wheeler or road train when needed.
I wholeheartedly agree with the last paragraph, though. But not that I wouldn't appreciate a Sunday drive in a Viper.
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Interesting results! My girlfriend has the CVT '15 Fit. She's got about 4k miles on it and the dash still reads 60% oil life left.
Shocked us both but it looks like it's going to last close to 10k miles!
Shocked us both but it looks like it's going to last close to 10k miles!
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