Dodge 2500 4wd 6 speed manual "recon"

[southernjeeper]

I was driving back home and noticed it on side of the road for sale. I'm going to call about since the year wasn't posted on the sign and get a thorough overview of what all I know to ask the owner because 1. It's a farm truck for sale 2. Has gooseneck hitch 3. 4wd 4. How much as it been abused as towing most of its life 5. Is the 6 speed been at all giving any trouble that he or she is willing to admit.


My question before I get the wrong answers is which of the 6 speed trannies either the NV5600 or NV4500HD is more favorable?

This for me would be a farm truck in my case and since this truck caught my eye I had a gut feeling that this would look great around this farm. I Have been considering getting in to the cattle farming way of life because prices are on the up and up and may get better and better. For me the goose neck would come in handy for me as well. I would rather have a used dodge with the cummins anyhow and the sheer ruggedness and toughness of the cummins is my itch.

I will obviously get mileage, but my input from any of you dodge guys and girls is a clean truck that looks to be around 2006 or newer with the stick shift worth the hassle??? I do know the 5.9s are more favorable than the 6.7s but I don't want that to deter me from considering if this truck is the 6.7. The 5.9s just are beasts.

I looked under it and saw no visible oil leaks on the pans I thought I would definitely look into considering an offer if it checks out from my list of questions.

So in a nutshell is the single cab 2500 long box 4wd with 6speed from I dunno what year and 4wd floor shift worth it?

It will be strictly a tow rig but the 6 speed stick is doable, but an auto in this truck would definitely be more appealing. Remember I'm kinda just wanting a jest of what could be?

And if he has close to 200,000miles on it or 150,000 miles on it what ballpark of price you think it will be? I know that is really hard to determine because I dunno what mileage and year. But just humor me on an honest opinion? No [censored] responses about that I obviously don't know much til I just call tomorrow.

Thanks.

6 speed good or bad

 

[Dyusik]

Buddy had a ram with 5.9 and 430k of hauling and abuse miles was a 06 or07 when he sold the truck ( still hauling loads today). The truck had 2-3 clutches and a rear end rebuild but nothing with the 6 speed.
200k mile truck is 9-15k last I looked depending on condition.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: southernjeeper


My question before I get the wrong answers is which of the 6 speed trannies either the NV5600 or NV4500HD is more favorable?



NV4500HD is a 5-speed.
Any transmission behind the Cummins is subject to problems. I have an '01 5.9 with the NV4500, and the input shaft bearing failed at 155,000 miles, taking the clutch hub with it. I got a rebuilt transmission with a 3-year warranty for ~$1050, and put in an upgrade clutch and flywheel for ~$800.

The NV4500 is also prone to losing 5th gear because the retaining nut backs off, allowing the gear to disengage from its mate. This happened to me last year, and I did the repair myself. The aggravating thing about it is this reman transmission had two 5th-gear nut fixes in it, and it still failed by stripping the threads off the nut. Fortunately the threads on the shaft were undamaged, and I put it back together with a somewhat different repair kit.

One question to ask of the current truck owner is if the engine has (or has had) a tuner on it. The Cummins can tolerate increases in boost and fueling up to about 480 HP and 900 ft*lbs of torque, but the transmission behind it really feels the pain. I've got mine pumped up to ~500HP, 940 ft*lbs, so I'm not surprised when the transmission has a problem. The NV4500HD is only rated for 500 ft*lbs input torque. I use the extra power sparingly, and only when I'm not towing. My truck currently has 264k miles on it.

Check out the TDR Register website. Spend some time to educate yourself on what problems the various transmissions have had.

 

[jrmason]

The NV5600 is the best manual gear box Dodge ever put in a pick up. Better than the current G56 with almuinium case that is currently being used, IMO.
Mileage is important with common rail injection especially since Dodge skimped on fuel filtration. Injector life span ranges anywhere from 175k miles (bad fuel, poor maintenance) to 300k (good maintenance, added filtration) so ask lots of questions regarding this. I would want to know if they are original injectors and if the owner added any additional filtration. The OEM canister only offers down to around 7-9 um absolute filtration. The single best mod one can do is add a second filter rated for 3um before the injection pump. Clean fuel for common rail injection is extremely important as they fire multiple times per power stroke.
Aside from that and maintenance history take a good look at the front end. Any truck that weighs 8k pounds empty that's been used as a farm truck is susceptible to a worn front end, and its easy to sink big money in front end parts in these tucks.
Not trying to scare you away, but if this is your first venture into an HD pick up (and diesel in particular) your gonna have to be prepared and able to sink some money into maintenance. The trucks are extremely capable and reliable but parts are expensive when needed.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I don't think either manual transmission could be as bad as *any* of the automatics that were hooked up to it.

I have always wondered how many of those manual transmissions see their demise from bros with smoke tunes trying to power shift them.

 

[jrmason]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think either manual transmission could be as bad as *any* of the automatics that were hooked up to it.

I have always wondered how many of those manual transmissions see their demise from bros with smoke tunes trying to power shift them.


The 48RE is actually a solid transmission with a little tuning. Dodge gave it too soft of a shift pattern to make it more "car like". Bump up the line pressure and install a good TC and they can survive at high torque loads for a long long time. I'd also take a 48 over an Allison and its squishy torque management and adaptive learning which is the only reason they can last as long as they do. Take one or both programs away and their shortcomings are quickly noted. This is one area where Ford has always shined brightly. They've never been given much credit but they've had the stoutest transmissions hands down over the years behind a diesel.

 

[97K15004WD]

Depends on the year of the truck. Older models had the 5 and 6 speed New Venture models. New trucks have the G56 transmission. NV had a cast iron case. G56 has aluminum case. If the clutch has been replaced with a non-dmf unit, then gear rollover noise will ensure. Have you driven it yet?

PS. Fuel injectors get damaged quickly on the newer CR type models due to extremely tight clearances on the injectors and even the slightest water in the fuel can be a problem. Just be aware....

 

[Jarlaxle]

If it is a 2007.5 (6.7 litre Cummins) or later, run away.

 

[southernjeeper]

Ok wow thanks for all the feedback. Much appreciated.

I figured the 6.7 is a no no because what I have heard before ever posting about this truck. So that would be a not interested.

If it isn't the 6.7 this would be something to just see what he will take for it. Though the problems y'all have said make realize that this may not be a good truck to further look into.

Front end, clutches, and injector pumps are not something I would want to consider forking money over if I were to consider it.

Like I said I'll find out today later on and post what I find out.
If it is still sitting on the side of the road in a month or so I would figure he might want to drop his price.

One main issue. Should I really not consider trying because it being a HD truck with the 6speed? A first HD truck should be one with an automatic for me than a stick all because I wouldn't want to bite off more than I could chew. Then sometime later down the road once I get use to how the cummins engines and maintenance is I would all consider a more work truck with the stick shift.

To admit one little minute detail I can drive a manual shift but hills and especially with a heavy load would be a bit of a challenge for me all because from a dead stand still to getting up and go would take some more practice for me. Don't laugh at me for admitting that.

I have driven Hino's that Bonnie plant farms uses and a GMC flatbed years ago but for a truck that would be used for what is intended to do I should not even get that in my mindset.

I'll call and find out if it's a 2006 or older with the 5.9 this evening.

Thanks for helping me understand.

 

[jrmason]

With all the torque a Cummins has it is very easy to learn to drive. Even with a good load behind it little throttle is needed to get the load moving. First is so low when empty taking off in 2nd is pretty much standard procedure unless on a hill. Even though its a much bigger vehicle, they're very easy to drive IMO. I have a much harder time going from my truck to the wife's TDI 5 speed than I do going from the TDI to my truck.

It really depends on what exactly your going to use the truck for. If you plan on doing a good amount of towing and heavy hauling and need an HD pickup theres no gas engine in the world that compares to a diesel. If it will primarily be used around the farm (as in hardly ever leaving the farm) with many start/stops without ever getting up to operating temps, a diesel in general may not be such a good idea.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: southernjeeper
To admit one little minute detail I can drive a manual shift but hills and especially with a heavy load would be a bit of a challenge for me all because from a dead stand still to getting up and go would take some more practice for me. Don't laugh at me for admitting that.


Don't fret about starting a diesel truck moving on an uphill with a load. Start in first, which is a creeper low, and just let the clutch out. Take your foot off the brake when the engine starts to react. The low speed governor on a diesel will keep the engine from deviating from idle speed regardless of the load.

 

[cptbarkey]

4wd is very overrated in HD pickup trucks. i have needed 4wd only a few times in my lifetime to get me out of a few pickles that i could have avoided in the first place. i guess the best case is a boat slip, where 4wd does come in handy.

also, the 6.7 manual stock clutch quickly slips after a mild tune, thats why its never caught up to the auto's 800 some odd torque.

 

[southernjeeper]

I just got booted off site after typing a response. I was close to being done too. Grrrrrr

Well like I was saying it would be a truck used for the purposes of the gooseneck hauling ie cattle trailer, maybe a 30ft gooseneck or so and for the sole purpose to haul just about anything I want as my tacoma can't nessarily do much. Hay, cows, tractor to name a few that I would take advantage of the gooseneck hookup.

I imagine the towing capacity is around 15,000lbs give or take.

The hills around here aren't too bad and once I get the hang of the shifting points I'm sure I will have fun and be glad I got the 6speed.

I am calling tomorrow around lunch and if it's indeed a pre-2007 I might really have a dodge like I have always wanted since my grandfather was a dodge man and I have always wanted a 2500. One that is the 5.9 is icing on the cake as the 6.7 has a lot of issues.


So if the price is right and it's been taken cared of in upkeep wise it may just make be join the club. It will be really good if he was the first owner of it and not the second or more which i really don't know yet.

Til then thanks again for your input.

 

[SteveSRT8]

My FIL towed a 40 foot beaver tail trailer all over the country hauling classic cars for folks with an early Cummins Dodge 3500 dually.

He put well over 300k miles on that beast. I remember when it was brand new I jumped in, jammed it into third gear and took off! never even noticed.

What a man's truck!

 

[DoubleWasp]

I've taken off in 4th gear just for S&G.

I never use first gear unless I'm hauling.

 

[southernjeeper]

Truck sold.

It was not at the same spot unless he put it at a different location. I still haven't called which is terrible to get the year it was, mileage, and price.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Shame. These trucks are quite endearing once you're behind the wheel. I chose the manual because quite frankly, the second largest issue I had with the auto was its shift pattern was not ideal for the engine's powerband. The first issue is that I just don't like them in the first place.

I have the G56 trans, and it's not bad and has never exploded on me or anything. People use them for doing tractors pulls with far more power than I make. I got rid of the DMF because that is the weak link in the system, and the real reason why the stick never got the big power of the auto.

Yes, I have the gear noise, but it really doesn't bother me. The biggest thing you can do to significantly reduce the gear rollover noise running a SMF is to get rid of the stupid 6 quarts of ATF+4 that Chrysler uses, and refill it through the shifter with 7 quarts of the Mobil Delvac Synthetic Transmission Fluid 50 that Mercedes (who makes the trans) recommends. It's equivalent to a 90 weight gear oil, and is rated for more than half a million miles usage.

The 4WD does not make this truck into a Wrangler Rubicon. It just allows you to not get stuck when traversing poor terrain. At the algae covered boat launch ramps, especially the ones where I have to get my tires in the water, on top of the healthy wet algae, this is a godsend when dragging 6-10 tons up a grade. As is the low range transfer case that comes along with it. When my forklifts (7 tons) have gotten stuck in the dirt section of our yard, guess which truck I've used to haul them out?

It all depends on what you do, and what you like.

 

[southernjeeper]

Thanks. Doublewasp.. Thanks for saying that about the trans oil that is much better. Mobil Delvac.

The 4wd is for the pulling a heavy loaded trailer which could cause a 2wd cummins otherwise get stuck very easily. Farm = only makes sense to get 4wd. Or getting up a slippery boat ramp which in my Cherokee I have had to do more than enough occasions.

The tires I would have put in the truck if not the first HD truck which would still be a dodge 2500 with cummins 5.9 and probably has 150-200k miles already on the odometer. The tires of choice would be E rated Goodyear Dura-tracs.