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Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures #3691230
04/07/15 08:13 AM
04/07/15 08:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,108
Indiana
dlundblad Offline OP
dlundblad  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,108
Indiana
I asked this before, but didnt get a straight answer.

Whats the point of running a thicker running weight in extreme heat? We see here that (some) Australians and folks in the Middle East like a 50 or 60 weight oil. Wouldn't the radiator keep oil temperature somewhat in check and prevent any oil related failures? I would also think an oil cooler would be a standard option for vehicles in these regions. We also see engines that spec a much thicker weight in Europe and the other mentioned regions while the identical US version will take a 20 or 30 weight oil. (It has been mentioned here that a European car's severe use yields a thicker oil.. high autobahn speeds for example?)

I don't understand the reason behind any of this. In the US, thin seems to be in while other places are still using a thicker oil. shrug


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: dlundblad] #3691236
04/07/15 08:21 AM
04/07/15 08:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 34,650
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 34,650
ME
horse

Another thing, is revs make pressure. If you want pressure at speed, you've got it, no matter what oil's in there, unless something is seriously wrong.

A little extra flow, a little less bypass, is also something you get, going thinner.

Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: dlundblad] #3691240
04/07/15 08:26 AM
04/07/15 08:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 704
Gold Coast, QL, Australia
19jacobob93 Offline
19jacobob93  Offline

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 704
Gold Coast, QL, Australia
I have run all sorts in my car and I settled with 10w30 because it is the best all rounder. Gives good fuel economy, smooth and quiet and I'm not seeing any problems running it in a verging fairly high mileage engine in a hot climate.
80% of Australians with the same car and mileage as me will have 20w50 or thicker in the sump because yes for some reason here it is common place to suddenly use unnecessarily thick oil after 150,000km.
I have run 10w30 for a while now in a wide array of conditions for the reason you mentioned, the cooling system should keep it fairly constant regardless of ambient temps.
All I know is the temp gauge on my car is pretty sensitive, but at FOT the needle sits on the exact same spot whether I'm in 40C/105F summer heat with the aircon blasting or whether I'm driving through the snowy mountains in winter during sub freezing temps.
30 weights seem to serve me well and if your cooling system is effective and up to scratch you'll never have a problem smile
H*ll at one point I over heated my car (accessory belt snapped) and drove for about 30 minutes with zero coolant.

I think strict US emission control is why you guys get told to use an xW20 cause the same engines here usually spec 5w30 and people will happily use 5w40/50 in these same engines with no ill effects. 5w20 is quite unpopular here but I see it around


Car: 2000 Ford Falcon AU2 - 4.0L I6 @330,000km
Oil: Castrol GTX HM 15W50 + LM MoS2
Filter: Ryco Z9
Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: dlundblad] #3691248
04/07/15 08:31 AM
04/07/15 08:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,145
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 40,145
Ontario, Canada
Oil temp may or may not coorelate well with coolant temp (and it doesn't for the first while of running; oil takes longer to come up to temp without a heat exchanger). And you'd be surprised at the number of vehicles not fitted with oil coolers.

Shannow was able to significantly drive up his oil temp just driving in a lower gear for example.

Watch this video. This is a car (on the Autobahn) with a 7L sump and a large factory heat exchanger:



It isn't until he is north of 150Mph that the oil temp starts to come up, and then continues to go up from 90C resting to 110-115C under high load. (From 194F to 240F).


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: eljefino] #3691254
04/07/15 08:35 AM
04/07/15 08:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,108
Indiana
dlundblad Offline OP
dlundblad  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,108
Indiana
Originally Posted By: eljefino
horse



Funny you post this. I have yet to see a decent explanation of this my entire time being here...

You seem knowledgeable with your posts, but this one didn't answer my question at all. shrug


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: OVERKILL] #3691255
04/07/15 08:35 AM
04/07/15 08:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 704
Gold Coast, QL, Australia
19jacobob93 Offline
19jacobob93  Offline

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 704
Gold Coast, QL, Australia
This is true also! I remember reading from members with separate coolant and oil temp gauges that it takes the oil an extra 10 minutes or so to reach full opp temp after the coolant does


Car: 2000 Ford Falcon AU2 - 4.0L I6 @330,000km
Oil: Castrol GTX HM 15W50 + LM MoS2
Filter: Ryco Z9
Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: dlundblad] #3691258
04/07/15 08:38 AM
04/07/15 08:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,462
East Mountains, NM
4wheeldog Offline
4wheeldog  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,462
East Mountains, NM
CAFE regulations drive U.S. auto suppliers to specify the thinnest (And therefore, most fuel efficient) oil in cars sold here. In Europe, the ME and OZ, there is no incentive for the manufacturer to recommend thin oil, since they do not pay for the fuel.

In my experience, cars seldom die from oil related failures. It is possible to go 300k miles or more on the thin oil specified, with oil never being the issue, as the rest of the car falls to pieces around the engine.

That said......It is your car, so you can use whatever you want. If the manufacturer specs 0W/20, and you want to use 10W/40, there is nothing holding you back except fear and common sense. Oh, and in some engines, the VVT mechanism does not respond well to thick oil.

Personally, since none of my vehicles consume oil, I see no reason to go thicker than the manufacturer's recommendation.

Last edited by 4wheeldog; 04/07/15 08:48 AM.
Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: dlundblad] #3691270
04/07/15 08:49 AM
04/07/15 08:49 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,072
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,072
N.H, U.S.A.
The Higher ACEA A3 HTHS spec lube instead of going up a grade should do it, mate. Shoul;dnt need a 40 in a 30 spec engine unless you are Baja racer or running a lot of heavy throttle opening and load smile


2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#0 5033mi-Castrol Edge Prof? VW508+OE Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#7 52665mi-Castrol GTX Magnatec 5W20 + SOA Filter
Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: ARCOgraphite] #3691285
04/07/15 08:59 AM
04/07/15 08:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 704
Gold Coast, QL, Australia
19jacobob93 Offline
19jacobob93  Offline

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 704
Gold Coast, QL, Australia
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
The Higher ACEA A3 HTHS spec lube instead of going up a grade should do it, mate. Shoul;dnt need a 40 in a 30 spec engine unless you are Baja racer or running a lot of heavy throttle opening and load smile

I do sometimes worry that when I show the pedal my shoe, that the 30 weight won't protect the bearings properly. I don't drive hard or like an idiot but I like to kiss the redline every now and then to overtake or have some fun entering the freeway


Car: 2000 Ford Falcon AU2 - 4.0L I6 @330,000km
Oil: Castrol GTX HM 15W50 + LM MoS2
Filter: Ryco Z9
Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: 19jacobob93] #3691322
04/07/15 09:26 AM
04/07/15 09:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 407
SW U.S.
fredfactory Offline
fredfactory  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 407
SW U.S.
Originally Posted By: 19jacobob93

I do sometimes worry that when I show the pedal my shoe, that the 30 weight won't protect the bearings properly. I don't drive hard or like an idiot but I like to kiss the redline every now and then to overtake or have some fun entering the freeway


Its lugging your engine when hot that causes low oil film thickness, not higher rpm driving. Its the concept of "surfing" the oil film that counts. Stribeck Curve. Lugging is defined as high load at low RPM. When cold, any engine oil has the viscosity to surf, when hot your oil might be too thin.

Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: dlundblad] #3691331
04/07/15 09:39 AM
04/07/15 09:39 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,670
Minnesota
philipp10 Offline
philipp10  Offline

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,670
Minnesota
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I asked this before, but didnt get a straight answer.

Whats the point of running a thicker running weight in extreme heat? We see here that (some) Australians and folks in the Middle East like a 50 or 60 weight oil. Wouldn't the radiator keep oil temperature somewhat in check and prevent any oil related failures? I would also think an oil cooler would be a standard option for vehicles in these regions. We also see engines that spec a much thicker weight in Europe and the other mentioned regions while the identical US version will take a 20 or 30 weight oil. (It has been mentioned here that a European car's severe use yields a thicker oil.. high autobahn speeds for example?)

I don't understand the reason behind any of this. In the US, thin seems to be in while other places are still using a thicker oil. shrug


I think his question is, since all cars have a cooling system, then other than during warm up, why spec different oils? In effect, a car in Minnesota in winter and a car in Florida in summer, after warm-up should both see the same oil temperature, so why spec a diffent oil.

My answer is, warm-up is a killer of engines. That's when most wear occurs. however, if you are in a warm climate, might as well spec a heavier oil to take advantage of the fact you can.

Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: philipp10] #3691338
04/07/15 09:44 AM
04/07/15 09:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,611
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,611
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: philipp10
I think his question is, since all cars have a cooling system, then other than during warm up, why spec different oils? In effect, a car in Minnesota in winter and a car in Florida in summer, after warm-up should both see the same oil temperature, so why spec a diffent oil.

But that is just not the case. Extreme variations in ambient temps do affect oil temperatures, despite your cooling system keeping the coolant temp the same. People often report lower running oil temps during winters up north. And similarly, you might see slightly higher than normal running oil temps during hot southern summers, especially when you're in stop-and-go traffic and not getting much air flow, or if you're just driving in a very spirited manner.



'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: OVERKILL] #3691344
04/07/15 09:46 AM
04/07/15 09:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,007
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,007
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Overkill look at the revs, about 6500, its just not the speed he attained but the revs.
Go to the other end of the scale eg a VW Golf 1.6 doing 190 Kmh turning 6500 rpm with no oil cooler will see even hotter oil temps.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: philipp10] #3691347
04/07/15 09:47 AM
04/07/15 09:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 401
Southern Illinois
ccap41 Offline
ccap41  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 401
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I asked this before, but didnt get a straight answer.

Whats the point of running a thicker running weight in extreme heat? We see here that (some) Australians and folks in the Middle East like a 50 or 60 weight oil. Wouldn't the radiator keep oil temperature somewhat in check and prevent any oil related failures? I would also think an oil cooler would be a standard option for vehicles in these regions. We also see engines that spec a much thicker weight in Europe and the other mentioned regions while the identical US version will take a 20 or 30 weight oil. (It has been mentioned here that a European car's severe use yields a thicker oil.. high autobahn speeds for example?)

I don't understand the reason behind any of this. In the US, thin seems to be in while other places are still using a thicker oil. shrug


I think his question is, since all cars have a cooling system, then other than during warm up, why spec different oils? In effect, a car in Minnesota in winter and a car in Florida in summer, after warm-up should both see the same oil temperature, so why spec a diffent oil.

My answer is, warm-up is a killer of engines. That's when most wear occurs. however, if you are in a warm climate, might as well spec a heavier oil to take advantage of the fact you can.


From my readings you are spot on. The warm up process is what harms the engine more than anything else(lubrication-wise). Starting thinner helps things flow at much cooler temperatures and there are a lot of drivers who only make 10 minute trips meaning things are even up to temp when you're already parking. That is one reason I run a thinner oil than spec. I make a lot of 5 mile and under trips and with a thinner oil it is at least flowing the way my vehicle needs when I shut it down, even if it isn't all the way warmed up yet.


2016 Ford Focus Titanium Hatch 2.0
Oil: Mobil 2 EP 0w-20
Filter: Fram Ultra 3614
Re: Oil Weight and Ambient Temperatures [Re: dlundblad] #3691348
04/07/15 09:48 AM
04/07/15 09:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,108
Indiana
dlundblad Offline OP
dlundblad  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,108
Indiana
So moral of the story, if one sees 115*F+ days on a normal basis, going up a weight or 2 isn't such a bad idea..


03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 158k M1 EP 10w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

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