filter change interval

[rancur3p1c]

so as the filter ages the bigger pores clog forcing the rest of the oil through the smaller pores-- so you get better and better filtration, right up to the point where the filter clogs.

we see similar behavior in filtering analysis of K&N filters.

because of this, some people go 30k on single oil filters when they have a good filter-- 2 ECI's.

thoughts?

 

[HTSS_TR]

I never had any filter for that long, the longest I had was 2 OCI's in the E430 for a total 21-22k miles. This is cartridge filter, I looked at it when I change the oil, it was in excellent shape so I used it 1 more OCI.

The FCI of my LS400 was 1 year, average yearly mileage was 17-18k miles, the filters were mostly mid range to low end, not high end.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: rancur3p1c
thoughts?

Sure, if you can tell exactly at what point the filter clogs. Can you?

 

[WobblyElvis]

Old school is every second oil change.

 

[sicko]

Originally Posted By: rancur3p1c
so as the filter ages the bigger pores clog forcing the rest of the oil through the smaller pores-- so you get better and better filtration, right up to the point where the filter clogs.

we see similar behavior in filtering analysis of K&N filters.

because of this, some people go 30k on single oil filters when they have a good filter-- 2 ECI's.

thoughts?



While the filtration may be getting better, it's also becoming more restrictive, which means the bypass will also open more often. This means more unfiltered oil will be circulating through your vehicle when it's cold, or when you stomp on the gas. And how exactly are you going to know when it's overly clogged and starting to go into bypass more often then you'd like?

Also, I realize we see filters begin to perform better after they've been used a bit. However, why would you assume the larger pores would clog first? Wouldn't it be more natural to assume the smaller pores clog first?

Ultimately I think it's best to buy a filter who's manufacture's micron rating you like, and just replace it each OCI. It's usually around $4-$8, and while it can go for significantly longer, at that price why not just change it and not worry?

 

[slowdime]

If you're running a filter for a long time it's going to inevitably not allow oil to pass through as well. Once the pressure differential is great enough you go into bypass and may as well not have filter at all. Does filter efficiency increase as it gets older? I don't know exactly, but logic would tell me that what gains in efficiency you would see with an older filter would be negated by going into bypass more often.
You can get a good filter for not a whole lot of money.
I worry more about flow than filtering particles half the size of a gnat testicle.

 

[SumpChump]

So in my case, is there any danger in running a Toyota Genuine filter in the camry with TGMO for 10k? (I change oil at 5k, just oil)

Winter highway driving 30min. per day with 20 min warm-up idle. 25k on motor.

 

[147_Grain]

The OEM filter cartridge has to be tested for at least 10K because that is Toyota's regular OCI for normal driving.

Fram makes a 15K Cartridge Oil Filter for late model Camry's in their Ultra line-up, which I believe is superior to the OEM with 50% less filtration rating and enough capacity for 10K +.

Personally, I run the Fram Ultra for two OCI's in my Toyota's instead of OEM, but Toyota's cartridge filters are good enough for two oil changes back to back totaling 10K.

 

[3311]

Originally Posted By: sicko
Originally Posted By: rancur3p1c
so as the filter ages the bigger pores clog forcing the rest of the oil through the smaller pores-- so you get better and better filtration, right up to the point where the filter clogs.

we see similar behavior in filtering analysis of K&N filters.

because of this, some people go 30k on single oil filters when they have a good filter-- 2 ECI's.

thoughts?



While the filtration may be getting better, it's also becoming more restrictive, which means the bypass will also open more often. This means more unfiltered oil will be circulating through your vehicle when it's cold, or when you stomp on the gas. And how exactly are you going to know when it's overly clogged and starting to go into bypass more often then you'd like?

Also, I realize we see filters begin to perform better after they've been used a bit. However, why would you assume the larger pores would clog first? Wouldn't it be more natural to assume the smaller pores clog first?

Ultimately I think it's best to buy a filter who's manufacture's micron rating you like, and just replace it each OCI. It's usually around $4-$8, and while it can go for significantly longer, at that price why not just change it and not worry?

Good post! I agree.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: sicko
Originally Posted By: rancur3p1c
so as the filter ages the bigger pores clog forcing the rest of the oil through the smaller pores-- so you get better and better filtration, right up to the point where the filter clogs.

we see similar behavior in filtering analysis of K&N filters.

because of this, some people go 30k on single oil filters when they have a good filter-- 2 ECI's.

thoughts?



While the filtration may be getting better, it's also becoming more restrictive, which means the bypass will also open more often. This means more unfiltered oil will be circulating through your vehicle when it's cold, or when you stomp on the gas. And how exactly are you going to know when it's overly clogged and starting to go into bypass more often then you'd like?

Also, I realize we see filters begin to perform better after they've been used a bit. However, why would you assume the larger pores would clog first? Wouldn't it be more natural to assume the smaller pores clog first?

Ultimately I think it's best to buy a filter who's manufacture's micron rating you like, and just replace it each OCI. It's usually around $4-$8, and while it can go for significantly longer, at that price why not just change it and not worry?
Seems to me particles which would pass the large pores will clog the smaller ones, so the smaller ones will clog first.

 

[goodtimes]

Why would bigger pores clog first? Seems opposite.

 

[rancur3p1c]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I never had any filter for that long, the longest I had was 2 OCI's in the E430 for a total 21-22k miles. This is cartridge filter, I looked at it when I change the oil, it was in excellent shape so I used it 1 more OCI.

The FCI of my LS400 was 1 year, average yearly mileage was 17-18k miles, the filters were mostly mid range to low end, not high end.
how can you tell if it's in excellent shape?

 

[rancur3p1c]

Originally Posted By: sicko
Originally Posted By: rancur3p1c
so as the filter ages the bigger pores clog forcing the rest of the oil through the smaller pores-- so you get better and better filtration, right up to the point where the filter clogs.

we see similar behavior in filtering analysis of K&N filters.

because of this, some people go 30k on single oil filters when they have a good filter-- 2 ECI's.

thoughts?



While the filtration may be getting better, it's also becoming more restrictive, which means the bypass will also open more often. This means more unfiltered oil will be circulating through your vehicle when it's cold, or when you stomp on the gas. And how exactly are you going to know when it's overly clogged and starting to go into bypass more often then you'd like?

Also, I realize we see filters begin to perform better after they've been used a bit. However, why would you assume the larger pores would clog first? Wouldn't it be more natural to assume the smaller pores clog first?

Ultimately I think it's best to buy a filter who's manufacture's micron rating you like, and just replace it each OCI. It's usually around $4-$8, and while it can go for significantly longer, at that price why not just change it and not worry?


uhh, it doesn't OPEN, it blows...usually...at least on the filters I use...Purolator...no?

 

[rancur3p1c]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Why would bigger pores clog first? Seems opposite.


the fluid flows through path of least resistance, which is through the largest pores. As those catch larger particles, oil get forced through progressively smaller pores which catch finer and finer particles, right until they're all clogged and you're using the bypass.

 

[tommygunn]

eh, I wouldn't do it. MAYBE if your car uses an expensive, hard-to-find filter, than *maybe*

But otherwise, filters are so cheap, and included with those oil change specials, that it really isn't worth it.

And of course, Purolators won't clog because they tear

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: rancur3p1c
so as the filter ages the bigger pores clog forcing the rest of the oil through the smaller pores-- so you get better and better filtration, right up to the point where the filter clogs.

we see similar behavior in filtering analysis of K&N filters.

because of this, some people go 30k on single oil filters when they have a good filter-- 2 ECI's.

thoughts?



Depends on your OCI, what filter you're using --


Amsoil/M1 Syn/Bosch Distance/Fram Ultra filter and short interval and cheapest oil you can find = multiple OCIs without worry.


Cheapest filter you can find and Amsoil/M1 EP = filter likely to clog/die/fail before oil is done.





It also matters whether or not you have a Honda.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: rancur3p1c
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Why would bigger pores clog first? Seems opposite.


the fluid flows through path of least resistance, which is through the largest pores. As those catch larger particles, oil get forced through progressively smaller pores which catch finer and finer particles, right until they're all clogged and you're using the bypass.


I was thinking that also, but don't think it works that way. The resistance to flow should be the same per unit area of pore, oil molecules being far smaller than a "pore." Particle are being thrown against the media all over, and are plugging up the small pores first the way I see it. If a screen with different sized holes is used to sift sand/dirt, the large holes stay unplugged longer, right? Another way to look at it is why do efficiency ratings go up for large particles and down for smaller, with the same filter? More small particles keep passing through, less efficiency for them, because the larger pores allow them to pass. Just a thought, as something doesn't seem right about the theory large pores plug first.

 

[Dallas69]

I wouldn't go over 15k on any filter but that's just me
Filters are about the cheapest replacement part on the engine so why stress it out
Besides I get tired of looking at the same color filter after awhile anyway
To each his own

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: rancur3p1c
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Why would bigger pores clog first? Seems opposite.


the fluid flows through path of least resistance, which is through the largest pores. As those catch larger particles, oil get forced through progressively smaller pores which catch finer and finer particles, right until they're all clogged and you're using the bypass.


I was thinking that also, but don't think it works that way. The resistance to flow should be the same per unit area of pore, oil molecules being far smaller than a "pore." Particle are being thrown against the media all over, and are plugging up the small pores first the way I see it. If a screen with different sized holes is used to sift sand/dirt, the large holes stay unplugged longer, right? Another way to look at it is why do efficiency ratings go up for large particles and down for smaller, with the same filter? More small particles keep passing through, less efficiency for them, because the larger pores allow them to pass. Just a thought, as something doesn't seem right about the theory large pores plug first.


What you're missing to see is what goodtimes already mentioned, that is the oil will take the path of least resistance. Therefore, there is more oil flowing through the paths made up of larger holes, and less flowing through the paths made up of small holes. So the least resistive paths start to clog up quicker than the more restrictive paths. As the least restrictive paths start clogging, then the oil flow will start to redistribute itself as time goes on and the filter clogs up more and more. The way an oil filter works is not like "dirt being sifted by a screen". The oil filter media is way more 3-dimensional than that, especially with full synthetic media. A metal mesh/screen (reusable) oil filter would however work more like a screen.

 

[rancur3p1c]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
I wouldn't go over 15k on any filter but that's just me
Filters are about the cheapest replacement part on the engine so why stress it out
Besides I get tired of looking at the same color filter after awhile anyway
To each his own


well, because you can conceivable get even better filtration. maybe.