PU 5w20 2013 Challenger 5.7L Hemi 4,678 miles on oil

[dtru]

I will just leave the exact quote from the SRT engineers.

"The oils we recommend are 0W40 Pennzoil Ultra (with 250 ppm moly added which gives additional cam phasing benefit - very positive on this oil) and our old SRT oil Mobil 1 (with 110-160 ppm moly)"

 

[CrawfishTails]

Good find on the fact that the Ultra 0w-40 has more moly. Now I want some.

The fuller quote from Chrsyler SRT engineers in a chat session is:

"There are some disadvantages to 5W-40 usage for the cam phasing system (rather than the MDS system). The fast acting cam phaser system was designed to utilize synthetic 0W-40 vis oils. The oils we recommend are 0W40 Pennzoil Ultra (with 250 ppm moly added which gives additional cam phasing benefit - very positive on this oil) and our old SRT oil Mobil 1 (with 110-160 ppm moly)."

I'd assume they're talking about a low-friction benefit using moly in the hydraulic system.

Actually that 250 ppm is effectively bigger since trinuclear moly is around twice as effective as most other forms of moly out there.

High Moly motor oil list:

0w-40 Pennzoil Ultra: 250 ppm Infineum trinuclear moly
0w-20 Mazda dealership/ebay oil: 600 ppm moly
5w-30 Schaeffer Supreme 9000™ 5W-30: 300 ppm moly
Redline uses a lot too.

Also, since Team Penske Indycar uses 0w-40 Pennzoil Ultra, I wonder if higher moly helps in their little 10,000 RPM Sunday drives?

 

[Bookmaker]

My car loves the Ultra 5w20. With 10 jugs of it in my stash I won't be changing anytime soon.

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Good find on the fact that the Ultra 0w-40 has more moly. Now I want some.

The fuller quote from Chrsyler SRT engineers in a chat session is:

"There are some disadvantages to 5W-40 usage for the cam phasing system (rather than the MDS system). The fast acting cam phaser system was designed to utilize synthetic 0W-40 vis oils. The oils we recommend are 0W40 Pennzoil Ultra (with 250 ppm moly added which gives additional cam phasing benefit - very positive on this oil) and our old SRT oil Mobil 1 (with 110-160 ppm moly)."

I'd assume they're talking about a low-friction benefit using moly in the hydraulic system.

Actually that 250 ppm is effectively bigger since trinuclear moly is around twice as effective as most other forms of moly out there.

High Moly motor oil list:

0w-40 Pennzoil Ultra: 250 ppm Infineum trinuclear moly
0w-20 Mazda dealership/ebay oil: 600 ppm moly
5w-30 Schaeffer Supreme 9000™ 5W-30: 300 ppm moly
Redline uses a lot too.

Also, since Team Penske Indycar uses 0w-40 Pennzoil Ultra, I wonder if higher moly helps in their little 10,000 RPM Sunday drives?


Awesome thanks for the info.

Is that the new PU with the PP?

 

[SteveSRT8]

As someone who has personally dined with SRT engineers I want you guys to know one thing. They are so tightly bound contractually that they can say NOTHING that is outside of corporate policies. Nothing.

The exact same cam phasing system is in a 5.7 as in a 6.4. yet the light duty spec is 20 weight. The HD spec is 30 weight. And the SRT 6.4 uses 40 weight.

Think about it a minute. My 05 6.1 which is a dedicated engine built strictly for high performance applications has M1 0w-40 right on the filler cap by name.

Most of us will now be able to understand why we constantly state that the Hemis run well on almost any oil...

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
As someone who has personally dined with SRT engineers I want you guys to know one thing. They are so tightly bound contractually that they can say NOTHING that is outside of corporate policies. Nothing.

The exact same cam phasing system is in a 5.7 as in a 6.4. yet the light duty spec is 20 weight. The HD spec is 30 weight. And the SRT 6.4 uses 40 weight.

Think about it a minute. My 05 6.1 which is a dedicated engine built strictly for high performance applications has M1 0w-40 right on the filler cap by name.

Most of us will now be able to understand why we constantly state that the Hemis run well on almost any oil...


Yes they do run well on any oil, but running well and running optimal are not necessarily the same thing. They also recommended the specific SRT branded Mobile 1, that has higher moly count than what I have seen in the non branded.

Yes the 6.1 states to use the SRT Mobile 1 but that car has been out of production since 2011 and they have updated since then. Hence them stating the "old" Mobile 1.

All I am trying to do is relay the information and my personal experience. I dont know the function behind it but the SRT branded oil has a high moly count and the engineers who designed the car stated that a high moly count is beneficial. Choose to not believe it if you want, thats your choice but I am going to take the word of the people who designed the car over opinions on the internet. No disrespect intended.

 

[Clevy]

'
Originally Posted By: dtru
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
As someone who has personally dined with SRT engineers I want you guys to know one thing. They are so tightly bound contractually that they can say NOTHING that is outside of corporate policies. Nothing.

The exact same cam phasing system is in a 5.7 as in a 6.4. yet the light duty spec is 20 weight. The HD spec is 30 weight. And the SRT 6.4 uses 40 weight.

Think about it a minute. My 05 6.1 which is a dedicated engine built strictly for high performance applications has M1 0w-40 right on the filler cap by name.

Most of us will now be able to understand why we constantly state that the Hemis run well on almost any oil...


Yes they do run well on any oil, but running well and running optimal are not necessarily the same thing. They also recommended the specific SRT branded Mobile 1, that has higher moly count than what I have seen in the non branded.

Yes the 6.1 states to use the SRT Mobile 1 but that car has been out of production since 2011 and they have updated since then. Hence them stating the "old" Mobile 1.

All I am trying to do is relay the information and my personal experience. I dont know the function behind it but the SRT branded oil has a high moly count and the engineers who designed the car stated that a high moly count is beneficial. Choose to not believe it if you want, thats your choice but I am going to take the word of the people who designed the car over opinions on the internet. No disrespect intended.



SRT branded mobil 1?

Do post a pic of that animal since I've yet to hear of it.

Or is it a crypto zoologist dream,like Bigfoot and Nessie

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
.............
Most of us will now be able to understand why we constantly state that the Hemis run well on almost any oil...


ANY car/truck will run well on the cheapest conventional oil found at Autozone.
As always on bitog, we are only interested in what's better or best.

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: dtru
Is that the new PU with the PP?

I thought all the latest production Pennz Ultra's are pure plus. Maybe the 0w-40 isn't yet, not sure.

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
'
Originally Posted By: dtru
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
As someone who has personally dined with SRT engineers I want you guys to know one thing. They are so tightly bound contractually that they can say NOTHING that is outside of corporate policies. Nothing.

The exact same cam phasing system is in a 5.7 as in a 6.4. yet the light duty spec is 20 weight. The HD spec is 30 weight. And the SRT 6.4 uses 40 weight.

Think about it a minute. My 05 6.1 which is a dedicated engine built strictly for high performance applications has M1 0w-40 right on the filler cap by name.

Most of us will now be able to understand why we constantly state that the Hemis run well on almost any oil...


Yes they do run well on any oil, but running well and running optimal are not necessarily the same thing. They also recommended the specific SRT branded Mobile 1, that has higher moly count than what I have seen in the non branded.

Yes the 6.1 states to use the SRT Mobile 1 but that car has been out of production since 2011 and they have updated since then. Hence them stating the "old" Mobile 1.

All I am trying to do is relay the information and my personal experience. I dont know the function behind it but the SRT branded oil has a high moly count and the engineers who designed the car stated that a high moly count is beneficial. Choose to not believe it if you want, thats your choice but I am going to take the word of the people who designed the car over opinions on the internet. No disrespect intended.



SRT branded mobil 1?

Do post a pic of that animal since I've yet to hear of it.

Or is it a crypto zoologist dream,like Bigfoot and Nessie


Congratulations. /golfclap

After all your nit picking you finally got me on one point. I made the mistake of assuming the Mobil 1 oil they recommended was SRT branded like they currently do with Pennzoil.

Now sit back and revel how you finally "showed me".

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: dtru
Is that the new PU with the PP?

I thought all the latest production Pennz Ultra's are pure plus. Maybe the 0w-40 isn't yet, not sure.


I do believe that is what they are phasing into but I am not sure when that started.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: dtru
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
As someone who has personally dined with SRT engineers I want you guys to know one thing. They are so tightly bound contractually that they can say NOTHING that is outside of corporate policies. Nothing.

The exact same cam phasing system is in a 5.7 as in a 6.4. yet the light duty spec is 20 weight. The HD spec is 30 weight. And the SRT 6.4 uses 40 weight.

Think about it a minute. My 05 6.1 which is a dedicated engine built strictly for high performance applications has M1 0w-40 right on the filler cap by name.

Most of us will now be able to understand why we constantly state that the Hemis run well on almost any oil...


Yes they do run well on any oil, but running well and running optimal are not necessarily the same thing. They also recommended the specific SRT branded Mobile 1, that has higher moly count than what I have seen in the non branded.

Yes the 6.1 states to use the SRT Mobile 1 but that car has been out of production since 2011 and they have updated since then. Hence them stating the "old" Mobile 1.

All I am trying to do is relay the information and my personal experience. I dont know the function behind it but the SRT branded oil has a high moly count and the engineers who designed the car stated that a high moly count is beneficial. Choose to not believe it if you want, thats your choice but I am going to take the word of the people who designed the car over opinions on the internet. No disrespect intended.


Dude, there was no "SRT" Mobil 1. The branded oil began with the SOPUS products. Previously the M1 0w-40 stocked at the dealership was the same stuff you can buy at Walmart or your local parts store. I know, because I do a fair chunk of work for the local Chrysler dealer on the IT side of things and they used to bring cases of the bottled M1 0w-40 in by the skid. I have quite a bit of it on hand because of that.

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: dtru
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
As someone who has personally dined with SRT engineers I want you guys to know one thing. They are so tightly bound contractually that they can say NOTHING that is outside of corporate policies. Nothing.

The exact same cam phasing system is in a 5.7 as in a 6.4. yet the light duty spec is 20 weight. The HD spec is 30 weight. And the SRT 6.4 uses 40 weight.

Think about it a minute. My 05 6.1 which is a dedicated engine built strictly for high performance applications has M1 0w-40 right on the filler cap by name.

Most of us will now be able to understand why we constantly state that the Hemis run well on almost any oil...


Yes they do run well on any oil, but running well and running optimal are not necessarily the same thing. They also recommended the specific SRT branded Mobile 1, that has higher moly count than what I have seen in the non branded.

Yes the 6.1 states to use the SRT Mobile 1 but that car has been out of production since 2011 and they have updated since then. Hence them stating the "old" Mobile 1.

All I am trying to do is relay the information and my personal experience. I dont know the function behind it but the SRT branded oil has a high moly count and the engineers who designed the car stated that a high moly count is beneficial. Choose to not believe it if you want, thats your choice but I am going to take the word of the people who designed the car over opinions on the internet. No disrespect intended.


Dude, there was no "SRT" Mobil 1. The branded oil began with the SOPUS products. Previously the M1 0w-40 stocked at the dealership was the same stuff you can buy at Walmart or your local parts store. I know, because I do a fair chunk of work for the local Chrysler dealer on the IT side of things and they used to bring cases of the bottled M1 0w-40 in by the skid. I have quite a bit of it on hand because of that.


Yes I realized that in 2 posts before this. I assumed that it was SRT branded since they are doing so with the Pennzoil but I was wrong. Either way they still recommend the high moly count and from what I have seen the SRT branded Pennzoil has more.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: dtru
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: dtru
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
As someone who has personally dined with SRT engineers I want you guys to know one thing. They are so tightly bound contractually that they can say NOTHING that is outside of corporate policies. Nothing.

The exact same cam phasing system is in a 5.7 as in a 6.4. yet the light duty spec is 20 weight. The HD spec is 30 weight. And the SRT 6.4 uses 40 weight.

Think about it a minute. My 05 6.1 which is a dedicated engine built strictly for high performance applications has M1 0w-40 right on the filler cap by name.

Most of us will now be able to understand why we constantly state that the Hemis run well on almost any oil...


Yes they do run well on any oil, but running well and running optimal are not necessarily the same thing. They also recommended the specific SRT branded Mobile 1, that has higher moly count than what I have seen in the non branded.

Yes the 6.1 states to use the SRT Mobile 1 but that car has been out of production since 2011 and they have updated since then. Hence them stating the "old" Mobile 1.

All I am trying to do is relay the information and my personal experience. I dont know the function behind it but the SRT branded oil has a high moly count and the engineers who designed the car stated that a high moly count is beneficial. Choose to not believe it if you want, thats your choice but I am going to take the word of the people who designed the car over opinions on the internet. No disrespect intended.


Dude, there was no "SRT" Mobil 1. The branded oil began with the SOPUS products. Previously the M1 0w-40 stocked at the dealership was the same stuff you can buy at Walmart or your local parts store. I know, because I do a fair chunk of work for the local Chrysler dealer on the IT side of things and they used to bring cases of the bottled M1 0w-40 in by the skid. I have quite a bit of it on hand because of that.


Yes I realized that in 2 posts before this. I assumed that it was SRT branded since they are doing so with the Pennzoil but I was wrong. Either way they still recommend the high moly count and from what I have seen the SRT branded Pennzoil has more.


This assumes that they are using the same moly (they should be). If they aren't, and one is tri-nuclear and the other isn't, then the difference in quantity becomes negated.

Obviously SRT had no issues with the amount of moly in the Mobil product they were previously using, which also seems to have higher levels of zinc and phos

As that was their product of choice until they lost their relationship with Mobil due to the FIAT thing.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
This assumes that they are using the same moly (they should be). If they aren't, and one is tri-nuclear and the other isn't, then the difference in quantity becomes negated.

Obviously SRT had no issues with the amount of moly in the Mobil product they were previously using, which also seems to have higher levels of zinc and phos

As that was their product of choice until they lost their relationship with Mobil due to the FIAT thing.


Absolutely true. Despite the engineer's public statements they all love M1 0w-40. They just aren't allowed to say anything but company dogma. This means that the opinions of the folks who DESIGNED all these new gen Hemis are not likely to be known. Only what they are allowed to say in public...

 

[Clevy]

I gave up on this thread because I knew once overkill and strevesrt got in here they'd get it straightened out in a hurry,especially once m1 0w-40 gets mentiined. Overkill is usually all over that one.

So thanks guys. You guys have a way of 'splainin things with a smoothness I just don't have,and had I tried I'd end up with a vacation b

What funny is I'm no mobil fan and am a pennzoil guy however as evidenced by this thread I picked m1 to defend.
Steve's right. Incorrect info is offensive since most here do their very best to insure we keep it that way.

Dtru
Stick around. You are like I was when I first joined. I had a lot of ideas that consisted of half truths and marketing propaganda. In fact these 2 guys up there have done much to straighten me out on many topics. Heck I'm a mustang guy but I bought a charger due to many conversations with SteveSRT and I couldn't be happier with it.
So I suggest completely letting go of the half truths your holding on to and absorbing the info that many here share and trust me,you'll have a much better understanding of oil and the additization of it and you'll be on much better footing when another like you(less informed)presents himself and you'll be able to help them see clearly.
Once one lets go of pre-conceived notions and yesterday's ideals only then can they can they truly learn build on that knowledge.

So clear your mind of what you've "heard" and start over. Honestly it's for the best because in here you'll get eaten alive if you post half truths or incorrect info.

 

[GenaFishbeck]

Originally Posted By: dtru
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: dtru
Is that the new PU with the PP?

I thought all the latest production Pennz Ultra's are pure plus. Maybe the 0w-40 isn't yet, not sure.


I do believe that is what they are phasing into but I am not sure when that started.


You are correct dtru, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology will continue to phase out Pennzoil Ultra over time. This change occurred on February 1, 2014 when the Pennzoil Platinum line of motor oils packaging indicated that the use of PurePlus Technology was 100%, and all production locations switched. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-40 is recommended for SRT engines including Bookmaker’s 2013 Dodge Challenger 5.7L Hemi.- The Pennzoil Team

 

[dtru]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
I gave up on this thread because I knew once overkill and strevesrt got in here they'd get it straightened out in a hurry,especially once m1 0w-40 gets mentiined. Overkill is usually all over that one.

So thanks guys. You guys have a way of 'splainin things with a smoothness I just don't have,and had I tried I'd end up with a vacation b

What funny is I'm no mobil fan and am a pennzoil guy however as evidenced by this thread I picked m1 to defend.
Steve's right. Incorrect info is offensive since most here do their very best to insure we keep it that way.

Dtru
Stick around. You are like I was when I first joined. I had a lot of ideas that consisted of half truths and marketing propaganda. In fact these 2 guys up there have done much to straighten me out on many topics. Heck I'm a mustang guy but I bought a charger due to many conversations with SteveSRT and I couldn't be happier with it.
So I suggest completely letting go of the half truths your holding on to and absorbing the info that many here share and trust me,you'll have a much better understanding of oil and the additization of it and you'll be on much better footing when another like you(less informed)presents himself and you'll be able to help them see clearly.
Once one lets go of pre-conceived notions and yesterday's ideals only then can they can they truly learn build on that knowledge.

So clear your mind of what you've "heard" and start over. Honestly it's for the best because in here you'll get eaten alive if you post half truths or incorrect info.


I have never had a problem with learning new things. The issue was your approach.

I dont believe what I have been saying is half truths. I may miss a couple points but my main idea remains, SRT specifically called out the PU and stated that the high moly is beneficial to VVT function.

I am stubborn so until it is proven to be false that is what I will believe. I do not believe that the whole "politics" angle is a valid argument against that although it may be 100% true. Even though they are tied to Pennzoil, they still recommended the the Mobil 1 also which makes me believe that it is their true opinion, regardless of the politics.

Now what I admittedly do not know is the difference in moly types and how that equates to an "effective" count. Saying that 200ppm is not significant compared to 100 (the numbers someone else provided) does not make sense to me since it is exactly double the amount. Until I read that the type of moly in Mobil 1 is twice as effective than what is used in the PU then I will remain firm on that point also.

 

[dtru]

[/quote]

This assumes that they are using the same moly (they should be). If they aren't, and one is tri-nuclear and the other isn't, then the difference in quantity becomes negated.

Obviously SRT had no issues with the amount of moly in the Mobil product they were previously using, which also seems to have higher levels of zinc and phos

As that was their product of choice until they lost their relationship with Mobil due to the FIAT thing. [/quote]

Yes I am assuming 1=1 for moly. The "if" and "may" statements tells me that no one is really sure yet what PU uses so I will continue to believe 1=1.

My question, does the superior quality moly double the effective count? Should it be .5=1?

 

[OVERKILL]

Search for some posts by Molakule on tri-nuclear Moly, I believe he posted about how the two compare in the past. I can't recall the exact relationship at the moment.

Regarding the politics thing, it appears to be quite simple actually:

Mobil and Chrysler had a relationship, very similar to the Mercedes/Mobil relationship, the GM/Mobil relationship and the FIAT/SOPUS relationship.

During the development of the SRT engines, Mobil was still Chrysler's lubricant partner. Their already excellent 0w-40 product, used in the Mercedes cars (so there's that pre-existing relationship there, given the Daimler ties) proved to be an excellent match for the SRT engines and became the recommended/required product.

Once the bankruptcy happened and FIAT purchased Chrysler, they nullified the existing relationship with Mobil due to their existing relationship with SOPUS. Mobil appeared to be not overly happy about this development and subsequently stopped putting Chrysler approvals on their products.

At this point, the SOPUS products began replacing the Mobil products for Chrysler. I watched this happen at our local dealership as all the Mobil grades were phased out for SOPUS "equivalents". The dealers had no choice in the matter from what I was told. It was at this point that the SRT 0w-40 "appeared", with its seemingly inferior specs to the product it was replacing including lower levels of AW additives and a much higher NOACK volatility.

This product does not have the extensive development/testing history of the product it replaced, though I am sure it was tested to be a suitable replacement in this application. However suitable certainly doesn't make it superior, and the Mobil product, while not only having a few better specs "on paper", also has a plethora of OEM approvals from Porsche, Mercedes, BMW...etc. It has more testing behind it. And certainly far more time in the field.

SOPUS has a Euro 0w-40 that is much more similar to M1 0w-40. I am interested to see if it replaced the SRT lubricant.