Amsoil SS 0w-40 now available.

[drtyler]

Shannow,

Which oil is Amsoil claiming to be A3/B4 with HTHS of 3.4? Looks like the 0W40 being discussed has HTHS of 3.9, and their Euro spec oils range from 3.6 to 3.8?



Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: splinter
So does "recommended for" properly translate to "approved by" the respective manufacturers in this instance?


Great question. I always took the "recommended for" wording to mean "Amsoil thinks we might pass all the tests" without actually having run all the expensive tests Mobil1, Castrol, and Pennzoil do.


Have got in quite a few arguments on here over their weasel words.

(Note here, that I am not accusing Amsoil of not doing any testing which is the strawman that's flashed up when their testing is questioned).

Amsoil make recommendation, when their oils are clearly not compliant...obviously, and this is the most simple an oil with an HTHS of 3.4 ISN'T an A3/B4, in spite of "recommended for" wording.

Their testing allegedly takes the raft of industry tests, then applies the worst of the tests, stating that if it meets the worst, then a "lesser" test is an auto pass when making their recommendations, or "meets or exceeds"...we are still waiting in some other threads for what these "harder" tests are, when they are making statements.

Personally I'd be interested how they do sequence IVA when claiming API specs for starters (I have my suspicions).

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: wlyszkow
Approving meens freezing the current specification (including base oils) and their Signature Series (SS) oils are being 'fine tuned' quite frequently - it is their big adventage.
Even when they are blending more and more mineral base stock like 10-30% in the new 0W-40 or 30-60% in 0W-20 - 10W-30 SS range (no info how much the new 5W-50 contains), the oils are still top shelf ones and unique.
For API or EU spec approved you can choose from OE, XL or EU lines much worse than SS obviously.


Bull. An oil maker can "fine-tune" every time the API/ILSAC (i.e., SN/GF-5) advances, like every 5 years or so. Freezing the formula for 5 years is no big deal. More often is crazy.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: Koz1
I can get Amsoil much cheaper than those oils you just mentioned at Wall-Mart.
They cost almost 50.00 at WAlly World and 10.00 more at other shops.
Im getting ripped.


NEVER buy oil in Canada at regular price...! Good sale at CT this week on M1.

Just bought a couple of 4.4 l jugs of M1 0w40 at CT yesterday for $ 30.00 ... that is about on par with US pricing taking the exchange rate into account... about $7.00 a liter...

And, I checked out Amsoil at a local parts store, 0w30 SS was $ 16.00 a liter... no 0w40 yet...

Is it more than twice as good...?

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: drtyler
Shannow,Which oil is Amsoil claiming to be A3/B4 with HTHS of 3.4? Looks like the 0W40 being discussed has HTHS of 3.9, and their Euro spec oils range from 3.6 to 3.8?


Amsoil 10w-30 Diesel ACD oil has an HTHS=3.4, but the Amsoil claim is "recommended for A3/B3", when, technically, A3/B3 needs >=3.5, close but no cigar.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: wlyszkow
Approving meens freezing the current specification (including base oils) and their Signature Series (SS) oils are being 'fine tuned' quite frequently - it is their big adventage.
Even when they are blending more and more mineral base stock like 10-30% in the new 0W-40 or 30-60% in 0W-20 - 10W-30 SS range (no info how much the new 5W-50 contains), the oils are still top shelf ones and unique.
For API or EU spec approved you can choose from OE, XL or EU lines much worse than SS obviously.


Bull. An oil maker can "fine-tune" every time the API/ILSAC (i.e., SN/GF-5) advances, like every 5 years or so. Freezing the formula for 5 years is no big deal. More often is crazy.


I think the major oil makers fine-tune their blends more often than just when a new API/ILSAC spec is activated. The change from SM to SN required much more than a fine tune.

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman

I think the major oil makers fine-tune their blends more often than just when a new API/ILSAC spec is activated. The change from SM to SN required much more than a fine tune.


The main idea here is that if you change the formula, you have to re-run all the spec tests. For example, if you do something to improve wear performance, you might have just reduced deposits or foaming performance. ..........Sure you can tinker in the lab, looking forward to the next SP/GF-6, new dexos, etc. in the future.

Once you label and ship the product, that market product is frozen until the next big update, and you don't want to throw out new stuff every year, unless you don't mind running all the spec tests over again ($$$$). Maybe a big deep-pockets company like Mobil or SOPUS can do it, but they need to have a reason.

 

[Trav]

It is officially approved by no manufacturer. Its just their word that it meets or exceeds that spec, nothing more.
Under warranty no chance in hades i would run this (or any other non approved) in my engine. An otherwise warranty lube failure could open a can of worms that you can get closed and you will have to fight with Amsoil.

Pass on that whole deal.

 

[kschachn]

I don't get why it is a game changer, is there a shortage of high quality 0W-40 oils on the market at higher prices?

Originally Posted By: Ibrahim
A Game Changer product by Amsoil indeed! The specs at least on the sheet are head on at par with M1 Euro or better... this will be exciting!

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: Koz1
I can get Amsoil much cheaper than those oils you just mentioned at Wall-Mart.
They cost almost 50.00 at WAlly World and 10.00 more at other shops.
Im getting ripped.


NEVER buy oil in Canada at regular price...! Good sale at CT this week on M1.

Just bought a couple of 4.4 l jugs of M1 0w40 at CT yesterday for $ 30.00 ... that is about on par with US pricing taking the exchange rate into account... about $7.00 a liter...

And, I checked out Amsoil at a local parts store, 0w30 SS was $ 16.00 a liter... no 0w40 yet...

Is it more than twice as good...?
Why would you even consider buying Amsoil at a parts store? Dealers will sell for way less than $16.00 a liter. The SS 0w30 sells for the same price as the new SS 0w40.

 

[dailydriver]

Well say HALLALU!!!

FINALLY

I would have hoped for a little more VI to beat out M1, and Red Line, but the NOACK is good, and the TBN is EXCELLENT.

I'm guessing they are really going for the Euro market (despite the lack of 'official' approvals) with that slightly higher (than M1, and most of Motul's 0W-40s) HTHSV.

 

[wildmanrandall]

Being a SS, it will contain esters and organic moli and a higher level of PAO than the Mobil.
So this will have friction modifiers that we want for a car that are reduced not available in their 4wheeler 0w40 that they don't list the HTHS for.
The specs for this oil look very impressive on paper for the 100°C and 40°C. The generous tbn and hths at 3.9 looks like a winner in the catagory if we were compairing it to high saps euro oils.
I'm glad they finally added this to their line up. I don't know if they plan to add more specs to this oil and compete with liqui moly synthoil premium if this formulation fits into that catagory, but that would seem like a good idea.

This doesn't carry a long list of German specs right now, but the vi index, hths, and viscosity numbers make it seem like a very capable oil in a German application if the car is out of warranty.
Like others have said, how well will it stay in grade over the long term.
I hope to see a new Dan Watson video on utube for this oil lol.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Looks like direct competition to M1 0w40.

Not until they officially meet all the same mfg specs that M1 0w-40 meets.


I agree. It cannot be placed in the same class if not formally meeting the specs M1 and BP have. They took that extra step whereas Amsoil has not.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Trav
It is officially approved by no manufacturer. Its just their word that it meets or exceeds that spec, nothing more.
Under warranty no chance in hades i would run this (or any other non approved) in my engine. An otherwise warranty lube failure could open a can of worms that you can get closed and you will have to fight with Amsoil.

Pass on that whole deal.



100%

 

[wlyszkow]

0W-40 SS should perform far better than old fashioned Liqui Moly Synthoil 0W-40 with much lower TBN<10, HTHS 3.6, missing friction modifier, much lower PAO content (about 20-40% now) and Noack about 9%.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Ndx
Thank you

With our winters .... the 0w is a must ... for me ...



Not really. I use 5w-30 in my vehicles. In saskatchewan.

 

[wlyszkow]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Looks like direct competition to M1 0w40.

Not until they officially meet all the same mfg specs that M1 0w-40 meets.


I agree. It cannot be placed in the same class if not formally meeting the specs M1 and BP have. They took that extra step whereas Amsoil has not.

It depends on what you want or need to invest: mass market product made of cheaper ingredients in a limited amount of but wrapped in expensive certificates / approvals or a top shelf robust fluid based on proven formula at similar price.

By the way I do not like what they did with the 5W-40 AFL EU spec quality having invested in expensive manufacturer approvals but I understand why and for whom. This is just not the direction that I personally expect from Amsoil.

 

[Shannow]

But in not offering even evidence that they pass any of the tests other than "trust us"..."your OEM has to prove it was us"...and then "we've got a really great warranty" (on oil related failure).

When some of their recommendations are clearly not even a "meets", on the basis of some of the most simple metrics.

It's a confidence game, and they are playing the "premium ingredient", and proprietary information game, backed on the fact that there's nearly no lubricant related "failures" ever, even on the most abused and neglected machines...You could use any M1 for 25,000 miles or 12 months and not have a "lubricant related failure".

Again...how do they certify SN, when one of the wear tests is Sequence IV ?

I could (for example) mount a case for Shannow Oil Incorporated that if my 4 balls beats any over the counter certified oil's 4 balls, then mine "meets or exceeds" that aspect of SN...I could claim it, I could make glossy brochures, with my 4 balls out there, but if my oil has never been tested against SN how can I actually claim it ?

 

[Trav]

I wish they would stop with that useless 4 ball wear test, its totally irrelevant to engine oils.
Pert shampoo has a great 4 ball score.

It is almost insulting they include that as part of their test. Get some certs and approvals then sell it as a premium engine oil. Now the consumer can make an informed buying decision.
As it is now, its double the price and has nothing whatsoever but what they claim.
JHC if Mobil or Castrol did the things this company and a couple of others do people would be up in arms.

 

[wlyszkow]

Sometimes they present engine test of the SS oils results too - the ones used in a process of API / ILSAC certification.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3115.pdf
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3320.pdf

4 ball wear test is not a key (agree - COF would be more technical) but shows a difference even between their own lines like OE, XL or EU spec - all missing SS formula.

I tried SS oils about 6 years ago for the first time, used them all except 10W-30 in all my cars many times, ran many UOAs and happy today - best way to believe that they deliver what they promise is to test - it is not a religion ;-)

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I wish they would stop with that useless 4 ball wear test, its totally irrelevant to engine oils.
Pert shampoo has a great 4 ball score.

It is almost insulting they include that as part of their test. Get some certs and approvals then sell it as a premium engine oil. Now the consumer can make an informed buying decision.
As it is now, its double the price and has nothing whatsoever but what they claim.
JHC if Mobil or Castrol did the things this company and a couple of others do people would be up in arms.



Ha.

Awesome.