1989 Dodge 100 No Spark

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As the header states.I'm having a problem with a truck.The truck ran good and was parked without cranking for 5-6 months.

When the ignition key is turned on I hear relays clicking and the fuel pump powering up.The starter turns the engine freely.Gas poured down the throttle body nor starting fluid have not given any results.

Upon checking I found there is there is no spark.Nothing at the coil.Changed coils still nothing.Changed the ASD(automatic shut down) relay that controls the fuel pump and ignition power.Still nothing.

Some of the local guys have suggested
a)blown fuse
b)bad hall effect pickup in the distributor.

I cannot find a fuse or fusible link like on some other vehicles on this truck.Does it have one?
Is there an easy way to change the pickup coil while the dist. is still on the vehicle?Or will it be easier to pull the distributor?

I'm 6-2 ,280lbs and wear xxxl gloves and there is very little room for my hands or any tools in this area.(rear of engine 2 inches from firewall--there is a phillips screw back there that has to be removed)
(I called the Dodge customer comment line and voiced my opinion on this matter)

Thanks in advance people.
 
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The current FCA Fiat bunch isn't responsible for the location of the distributor.That goes way back to its 273 predecessor way back in 1964.The "LA" small block replaced the "A" block engine that was used in Plymouths and Dodges for years prior.Now,B and RB big block Chryslers (and 426 HEMI) have front mounted distributors,they were dropped after 1978.Chevrolet v8s also have rear mounted distributors.Most Fords have it up front.
 
Does anything move inside the distributor when the engine is turning over?

Check that just to make sure the timing chain didn't break. (I'm assuming this is either a v-8 or an inline six).

Also, are you sure the timing chain didn't jump time?
 
Originally Posted By: GreeCguy
Does anything move inside the distributor when the engine is turning over?

Check that just to make sure the timing chain didn't break. (I'm assuming this is either a v-8 or an inline six).

Also, are you sure the timing chain didn't jump time?



I forgot to say this is a v6 and the rotor did move while attempting to crank.So I think the chain is okay,not sure about the timing jumping as there is no spark and it was fine when parked.
 
THe "ignition amplifier" (actually a transistor switch) should have power to it and receive a signal from the Hall sensor. The Hall sensor signal may be difficult to measure but the pulse going to the coil should be readable on a DVM.
 
Actually Micheal the customer service/comment line is for Dodge products...not just current Fix It Again Tony amalgamated products.I don't expect an answer from the corporation.

However I felt a need to vent.So I called the comment line and talked with GASP! a live person.A rather nice young lady.I asked if they had a vent/rant extension.She stated No,but I could talk with her.By the end of the conversation I had her laughing a good bit(with the comment I'm not laughing at your problems but your sense of humor about this is pretty good) as I use humor to make my points a good bit of time.Esp my suggestion that she forward my call to the engineering dept as what is a solution to an engineer quite often sucketh in the real world.Case in point what idiot would place phillips screws to the front and rear(where it cannot be accessed) of the dist. instead of to the left/right of the dist. where it would have been easily accessed. I asked if she could forward an invite to the aforementioned dept to send someone down to replace the Hall effect sensor while the distributor is still mounted with common hand tools.She assured me that as the calls are recorded this one would get passed around.Cause it was a good one.

I pointed out that I have owned eight Chrysler products and usually defend them to the naysayers.They have been fairly easy to work on until this one Darn if this one is just about aggravating enough to turn me away.

Also at the time this vehicle was produced it would have been easy to scoot the motor forward a few inches since there is about 16 inches between the front of the engine and the grille.But that would have cost a few bucks more and Ma Mopar is known for cheaping out where possible.Just saying it could have been better designed.

From the scratches on the firewall and the rebuilders tag on the distributor looks like this has happened before.So one of the two previous ownwers had this same headache.LOL

I'm about to the point of pulling the distributor,I just hate doing that.I've pulled them on some of my slant sixes and an old scout v8 i had and replaced them with no problems.I just get nervous that i won't get it lined back up correctly.

I was just hoping somebody had a cheat or trick to make it easy.

I have been using a test light at each stage of working on this and I don't even get a flicker of light from any plug wire, coil wire or Hall effect connector while attempting to crank the engine.So I'm pretty sure it is the hall pickup.
 
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I have an '89 dodge van with a 318.

The Hall effect sensor in the distributor is a good guess. It is easy to replace, on my van, since I can sit in the driver's seat and do so.

You do not need to remove distributor, but perhaps it might be easier where it is located in your truck.

If the fuel pump is turning on, the ASD relay is fine.

Before I would attempt to get to the distributor on your truck, I would suspect the connector at the engine computer, specifically the 14 way connector.

Technicians prior to, or perhaps early in my ownership, pierced the insulation of the wires close to the base of this connector. Eventually many wires corroded out and broke.

One of the wires that is on the end of the connector feeds 9 volts to the other circuit board within the computer casing. If this wire is compromised, the engine will crank all day long, and never start, because of no spark.

Try wiggling this 14 way connector with the engine ignition to run, not start, then grab this 14 way connector, and wiggle it and the wires leading to it. If you hear the relays click on and off, BINGO.

Other things which might be helpful if this has no effect, is that mine has a bunch of fusible links stuffed behind the brake booster. One of these is for the engine computer.

Does the check engine light on the dash illuminate when key is turned to run, not start?

If so then you can pull computer codes by turning key on and off 3 times, leaving it to on the third time. The light will go out and start flashing.

2 flashes a pause and 4 more flashes is a code 24.

Expect to see a code 12
Expect to see a code 55

Any other codes can be found online under mopar OBD1 codes.


If the CEL does not illuminate when key is first turned on, check the bulb, it is a 194.

If a good bulb is known to be installed and still does not illuminate then the ECM is either bad or not getting power.

Not getting power is a blown fusible link, or a bad ground. Mine is grounded at the base of the coil. I have no idea about a truck.

I would suspect if relays are clicking and the asd and fuel pump work, the ECM is getting power.

On My engine computer, the 14 way connector was my nemesis for years. A couple of get me home fixes consisted of drilling through the back of the connector through the socket, stripping the broken wire, and inserting it through the connector so bare wire got compressed inbetween pins and socket. Over the years I did this to 4 separate wires. Each wire I did this to, later caused the solder joint on the circuit board where the Pin is fastened, to break and would cause stalling, or 1 fuel injector to not fire, or my alternator to not charge, or any combination of those. changing pressure on this connector would allow restarting and driving for a little while longer

I got a 14 way connector from a Dodge caravan in a junkyard and cleaned it up, and spliced it in, but my issues returned shortly, stalling and a no start, or no charge, or just one injector.

Later I acquired a 140 watt solder gun, removed the ECM from firewall, pulled the circuit board from the ECM casing, pulled the secondary casing off of circuitboard. Removed silicone potting from back of 14 way connector, cleaned it well, flux'ed it, and reflowed and added some solder to all 14 Pins and covered it with liquid electrical tape.

I was reluctant to try this myself, and now chide myself for this reluctance.

That was 3 weeks ago. No stalls since. it would have stalled by now. I consider it fixed.

One other thing I've got to Stress is the connector condition. I had used various tools to clean my 'new' junkyard connector along with 3/4 a can of CRC qed cleaner, and assumed they were pristine No more Dielectric grease, no particulates just Clean looking. I was wrong. Later I acquired some Caig Deoxit d5 spray and got this onto pins and sockets. The cotton q tips I used to buff the brass pins turned black. The precision q tips I used to clean inside the sockets, turned black, and both sockets and pin mating surfaces started gleaming like oiled gold or oiled chrome. where they were like white or clear 220 grit sandpaper covered beforehand.

They were this oxidized despite a liberal application of Dielectric grease since 1989!

There are also little tangs inside the sockets one can bend inward to further ensure good tight connection between pin and socket.

Anyway after I did this, as well as applying DeOxit D5 and then DeOxit Gold or DeOxit Shield to every sensor connector, in my 14 years of ownership of this van, it has never run better. the throttle pedal is more responsive and it feels like I took 500 LBS out from the Van as there is more power as well.

My theory is that substandard connections caused not quite 5 volts to reach the sensors from the ECM, and poor contacts at the sensors did not allow a true representation of the sensor's output back to the ECM so it could determine the best air fuel ratio and spark timing. My 02 sensor, Map, and Throttle position sensor connectors were horribly dirty, despite being encased in dielectric grease the entire time.

I now Consider Caig D5 to be magical electrical juice, and no electrical connection I ever remove ever again will not receive a blast of this product, followed by Deoxit Gold or Deoxit Shield to protect the longevity of those cleaned contacts. I'll use dielectric grease to prevent moisture intrusion, applied to the exterior of a closed connector, but never again will there be dielectric grease stuffed into the connector then the connector reseated.

I think ALL computer controlled vehicle would benefit from a cleaning with DeOxit D5 on the computer and sensor connectors. I went a bit nutty scrubbing the pins and sockets with mini bottle brushes q tips and precision q tips, but the product is designed to just be applied, excess wiped off and then have he connectors reseated.

Lemme know how these ideas work out for you, and best of luck.
 
I had a dakota with the 2.5 k-car engine.

This thing was already nutless and a big joke on everyone. Though I got six years out of it and sold it for more than I paid.

Anyway.

The distributor cap was held on with the world's tiniest, chintziest aluminum-talcum powder phillips head screws. I snapped one off and didn't have the skills or tools to tap this out.

So I stuck a 1 inch c-clamp on there. The block had a boss of some sort that would back up the jaw. This held for years until I sold it and possibly longer!

I called Lee Iacocca on his cell phone to give him what for but all he wanted to talk about was some book signing he'd be doing later.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I called Lee Iacocca on his cell phone to give him what for but all he wanted to talk about was some book signing he'd be doing later.


Lol. Yes, I wish I had enough spare time to flirt with customer service chicks after I'd called to complain about my 25 year old vehicle...

I do sympathize with the OP though, there are some truly stupid engineering decisions made in the automotive world.
 
Thanks wrcsixeight.

I had pulled the bulkhead connector yesterday and the blades were nice and chrome-mirror shiny.I just went out to the truck in the dark and did the key switch and got a 12 and a 55 code.That was all.So I guess tomorrow I'll work up my nerve and pull the distributor.If I can find my offset distributor wrenches.
 
I'm not talking the bulkhead connector. They actually seemed to have finally put some thought in that troublezone and made it somewhat right by the 89 model year

The Engine computer connector is chrysler halfassery at its finest, and still had plagued chryslers through '09 including the hemi

This is what the engine computer looks like:
EM887_PRIMARY.jpg


possibly like this:
EM10308_FULL.jpg


I was however usually able to pull a code after a stall/no restart, but not always.

Making sure these connectors here are clean and tight, if not the issue now, can prevent issues later, as well as possibly allowing the engine computer to read the sensors better and adjust air fuel and spark more accurately.

GO find the ECM, wiggle the 14 way connector with key on, and see if you hear relays click or the idle speed motor kick on or off while you wiggle. If you do not, then climb inside and suspect the hall effect sensor.

Note that some aftermarket hall effect sensors are known to not work properly with these. I used Echlin from napa without issue.


Think about going on Dodgeforum or dodgetalk.com about these issues.


Also since getting to it is such an issue, replace the distributor cap and rotor, make sure the cap has brass contacts, not aluminum, or you will be replacing it in 10K miles.

I've had no issues with my bulkhead connector, and on mine water dripping along the firewall is an issue.

It is on My list of things to clean with Caig Deoxit. I don;t think any engine control wiring flows through bulkhead connector anyway on this year except that for the ignition switch, it is mostly all interior dashboard related wiring.
 
Thanks WRC

I misunderstood your first post.The Chrysler ECM I have had trouble with in the past.I had one fail on a 2.2l Dodge 400 and one fail two weeks into ownership of a new 86 D 100(that was a harbinger of a sub-par truck ownership experience).

I know a local Mopar guy who has offered the loan of a known good ECM as test module if the Hall pickup module replacement does not work.

I plan on getting a can of the Deoxit you recommend and put it to use.

I have searched 4 or 5 of the various Dodge forums and the late 80's-early 90's v6 D series trucks are pretty much ignored.So I figured I would tap into the knowledge base here.

thanks people
 
I'd wiggle that connector and listen for relays clicking on and off first, has to be easier than climbing inside and pulling the distributor, or trying to change the HES in place, on only an educated guess.

This model year has different ECMs for the v6 and v8, and depending on what transmission came with it.

if you ever have to replace this ECM, remove it, open it up, and on the 60 pin circuit board, there will be a part number on one of the electrical doo dads in the lower left corner.

If this does not match, likely overdrive will not operate, and perhaps a 6 cylinder might not fire an 8 cylinder, but it would try and could prove to be good enough, for testing.

I'll be sending off my original ECM to be rebuilt somewhere so I have a fully functioning backup.
 
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