CASTROL MAGNATEC

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Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Whats to say the molecules are not in Edge formulations too ?

I asked Castrol customer service if these molecules are in Edge. Their response:

Quote:
Me: Your Magnatec oils include some kind of intelligent clinging molecules. Are the same molecules also present in your Edge line of oils?

Castrol: The two oils have different formulas. The EDGE unique chemical esters bond to engine parts. A thin oxide coating exists on the surface of metal components that can develop a positive charge due to electron localization. These chemical esters are designed to take advantage of this effect.
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Exactly, you'd think any oil would create smooth parts. Unfortunately not every oil does. Oil not draining down and molecules that bond to metal surfaces are very different things. However it's not really the bonding that is giving the benefit here. It's the ability for molecules to protect from cold and then allow traditional anti wear to work at higher temperatures. Esters are also surface active but they have a tendency to displace ZDDP which can compromise wear performance of engine oils.

The seq IVA never goes above 50C bulk oil temperature

Whats to say the molecules are not in Edge formulations too ?


Do you have a reference for that? MolaKule, who is a long time tribologist at a university, says esters do not compete with zddp (like the way an IL might for example). Other AW chemicals sometimes do, but not esters.
 
There is a good discussion of ester polar actions in conjunction with ZDDP at http://www.elevance.com/documents/200909_techbeat.pdf (see page 6, all the article too)
and I've noticed that if the type of ester used is too polar, then competition with ZDDP can occur. Tricky! MolaKule had formulated a special oil that used polymer esters with less zddp in a lighter oil at one point.
 
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Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
I'm referring to oils purchased in Japan and tested in the IVA that had similar poor wear results to the U.S. products.

US oils have also been tested before the famous hurricane


Can you post some proof of this? You've said it twice now and this is at least twice that I've asked you to back it up. Also, this is then NOT the same has the "hurricane oil" which, as I noted, would not have passed SEQ-IVA, which has a wear LIMIT on it in order for the oil to be approved by the API.

Now that we have the Hurricane thing out of the way, I would like some examples of this sequence IVA data that you've apparently seen from Japan and other countries with "poor" (but I am assuming still passable) Sequence-IVA performance. Otherwise, your claim is no different from me saying I've seen tear-down results from Germany from a particular OEM showing Mobil 1 0w-40 mopped the floor with all of the approved Castrol products. I'm not going to give any names or provide any evidence of course, I'll just keep repeating it hoping people will think I'm telling the truth
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I'm not going to give any names or provide any evidence of course, I'll just keep repeating it hoping people will think I'm telling the truth
wink.gif



lol
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Isnt it obvious I'm giving you the information as someone who knows but isn't allowed to say?


No, and having said that makes it sound even more fantastic
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Well you are guessing. I am talking about the oils I developed
wink.gif



Which is still intentionally vague to a degree that it is simply incredible. Molakule formulates oil, Solarent, Tom NJ, these are all guys that work in the industry and generally disclose as much information as they can when making claims like these. You've said nothing really other than there were differences in SEQ-IVA performance, and making it sound as menacing as possible. This was without confirming that these results were still within the limits set for the sequence or not, which was relevant to the "Hurricane oil", since it was well ABOVE the wear limit, and subsequently wouldn't have gotten approved.

I'd love it if you have some information to share. That's what we are all about here! And Sequence-IVA isn't something we see a lot of in terms of results unless you get a situation where somebody fails, and that doesn't happen often. But you sound like a salesman at this point with these "trust me" and "I developed oils" statements without actually touching on any specifics, particularly ones that would at least answer the questions I've asked you, and don't really require you to divulge any additional information, just elaboration on the statements you've already made.
 
These tests are expensive to run and propriety to my employer. I am not allowed to share them on an Internet forum for free. I would love to share but I can't. Instead I can only hint , sorry if this is vague.

Many of the oils we have tested are magnitudes above the internal limit for Magnatec oils. Often 90-140 vs the 90 limit
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro


Many of the oils we have tested are magnitudes above the internal limit for Magnatec oils. Often 90-140 vs the 90 limit


I'm talking about the limit set for GF-5 in order to have an oil approved, which is 90um. It sounds like you are describing an internal limit for Magnatec, which has the same limit
21.gif


If an oil was above the limit, it wouldn't get GF-5 approval, so this is a tad contradictory.......
 
bobbydavro, it's been rumoured around Oz that the edge as the "next", or "better" version of Magnatec (which has been kicking around in Oz for 15 years)...would that be fair to say ?
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Have a look at API 1509. Appendix F

Also internal limit is well below the API Limits...


Done. It shows no read-across for Seq. IVA for 5w-30
21.gif


What am I looking for?

Also, your statement read that the Magnatec limit was 90um. We know that's the GF-5 limit, so you've now stated the Magnatec limit is lower. I don't expect an exact figure, but how much lower?
 
What has me wondering is if this would be good for a car that would be driven maybe a few times a week Wondering just how long the oil does stick to the engine parts.

Kinda worries me a bit when my car sits for a while (can be up to a week) about wear when like all the oil is down in the pan for a while.....
 
All the oil ISN'T down in the pan.

Everything that had oil on it running has oil on it, not as much as straight after shutdown, but after a day or two, or a year, there's still oil on things.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3598827/I've_never_pulled_apart_a_dry_#Post3598827

The Magnatec is supposed to perform at the point when the oil is thinning, and the typically heat activated additives haven't kicked in yet.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Have a look at API 1509. Appendix F

Also internal limit is well below the API Limits...


Done. It shows no read-across for Seq. IVA for 5w-30
21.gif


What am I looking for?

Also, your statement read that the Magnatec limit was 90um. We know that's the GF-5 limit, so you've now stated the Magnatec limit is lower. I don't expect an exact figure, but how much lower?


Table F1.3. You have read across for IVA based on DI treat, VM treat and Base oil viscosity. In addition, with level 2 support you could add boosters to a test formulation to creat a final oil. Additionally base oil substitution/interchange allowances Often not many final formulations in engine oils have ran an API test, despite claiming API. Obviously the guidelines are written to ensure the 'worst case' is tested but there can be cases where the opposite happens.

The limit is more than a 3rd lower than the industry limits
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
bobbydavro, it's been rumoured around Oz that the edge as the "next", or "better" version of Magnatec (which has been kicking around in Oz for 15 years)...would that be fair to say ?


Edge was launched in 2006 and was always positioned above Magnatec in terms of price and performance/spec coverage.

I spent some time in oz working on a hybrid project. Output of this was Magnatec hybrid 0W-20 for Japan. Hybrid engines don't always warm up fully so it's great to have an anti wear technology that works from cold.
Australia now has a good coverage of visc grades and specification coverage with the new Edge oils with Titan
 
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