Originally Posted By: steve20
For me--it's about 1/2 mile before the racetrack--driving 35 will get you done run over
287?? (LOL)
For me--it's about 1/2 mile before the racetrack--driving 35 will get you done run over
287?? (LOL)
Cold weather warm up?
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Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Fogging the inside of the windshield is caused by improper clearing of snow/ice. You need to clear the vents on the outside (typically below the wipers).
Running the heater/defroster on a cold start is another error. Run defrost at the lowest blower setting or not at all ... the heater removes heat from the motor; you want warm-up to go as quickly as possible.
Run the heater/defroster once the temp gauge starts to move, and refrain from using max blower until operating temp has been reached.
The above determines your warm-up time in sub-freezing temps. However if you are properly dressed for the outside temp, you could begin driving away after a brief idle.
so, just for fun I tried it this way this morning. that is to say, I left the heaters off and let the truck warm up while I got my son ready to go.
it was about -8°F this morning and there was frost. so I started it up and scraped the windshield then went back inside.
when I got back out about 15 minutes later (longer than I expected) the engine temp was up into the "normal" range, and the inside of the truck was still stone cold (as expected).
I got back in to drive and couldn't see out the windshield because it had frosted over AGAIN. so I got to scrape it twice.
so I've come to a new conclusion:
the point of idling in the morning is not to warm up the occupants, and it is not to warm up the engine. it is to warm up the windshield so you can safely drive away when it is time to leave.
so from now on, I will do like I have always done, and start it up with the blower on defrost and 75% blower speed. sure, the engine will not be "warm" when I leave, and neither will the interior, but the windshield will be clear and I won't have to scrape twice.
who knew ... all these years I've been doing it right all along.
Fogging the inside of the windshield is caused by improper clearing of snow/ice. You need to clear the vents on the outside (typically below the wipers).
Running the heater/defroster on a cold start is another error. Run defrost at the lowest blower setting or not at all ... the heater removes heat from the motor; you want warm-up to go as quickly as possible.
Run the heater/defroster once the temp gauge starts to move, and refrain from using max blower until operating temp has been reached.
The above determines your warm-up time in sub-freezing temps. However if you are properly dressed for the outside temp, you could begin driving away after a brief idle.
so, just for fun I tried it this way this morning. that is to say, I left the heaters off and let the truck warm up while I got my son ready to go.
it was about -8°F this morning and there was frost. so I started it up and scraped the windshield then went back inside.
when I got back out about 15 minutes later (longer than I expected) the engine temp was up into the "normal" range, and the inside of the truck was still stone cold (as expected).
I got back in to drive and couldn't see out the windshield because it had frosted over AGAIN. so I got to scrape it twice.
so I've come to a new conclusion:
the point of idling in the morning is not to warm up the occupants, and it is not to warm up the engine. it is to warm up the windshield so you can safely drive away when it is time to leave.
so from now on, I will do like I have always done, and start it up with the blower on defrost and 75% blower speed. sure, the engine will not be "warm" when I leave, and neither will the interior, but the windshield will be clear and I won't have to scrape twice.
who knew ... all these years I've been doing it right all along.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
Don't leave car running unattended, had several automatics slip out of park, and several manuals pop parking brakes loose...
I have never heard of any of this before.
Were you around in the late 70's / early 80's when Ford automatics were dropping into reverse. There was a recall going back quite a few years. The fix was a decal stating not to let it idle without the parking brake set. We had a few company trucks take off, and the owners Lincoln joined him in a holiday inn coffee shop.
Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
Don't leave car running unattended, had several automatics slip out of park, and several manuals pop parking brakes loose...
I have never heard of any of this before.
Were you around in the late 70's / early 80's when Ford automatics were dropping into reverse. There was a recall going back quite a few years. The fix was a decal stating not to let it idle without the parking brake set. We had a few company trucks take off, and the owners Lincoln joined him in a holiday inn coffee shop.
No idle laws here. Not that most would care. At -35c you want heat. Period.
There are plug ins at most shopping centers so people can use their block heaters. Sometimes it's so cold you need to start a vehicle every 6 hours in order to insure it will start at all.
My charger would not start at -30c unless it was plugged in. The fuel was too cold to atomize thus made starting impossible.
So I've learned that an extra 10 minutes at idle in those colder conditions makes the vehicle operate less sluggish and I can see out the window.
And I couldn't care less what the BITOG peanut gallery thinks. Most have never experienced -35c and once they did their opinion would change immediately.
Ultimately your vehicle is an appliance and built to facilitate your life. If letting it warm up longer facilitates your life then let it warm up longer.
Simple.
There are plug ins at most shopping centers so people can use their block heaters. Sometimes it's so cold you need to start a vehicle every 6 hours in order to insure it will start at all.
My charger would not start at -30c unless it was plugged in. The fuel was too cold to atomize thus made starting impossible.
So I've learned that an extra 10 minutes at idle in those colder conditions makes the vehicle operate less sluggish and I can see out the window.
And I couldn't care less what the BITOG peanut gallery thinks. Most have never experienced -35c and once they did their opinion would change immediately.
Ultimately your vehicle is an appliance and built to facilitate your life. If letting it warm up longer facilitates your life then let it warm up longer.
Simple.
Exactly. Also, as we've both said before, anyone who thinks one can climb into a vehicle in -40 and not have one's breath frost the heck out of the windshield is deluded. Unless it's pumping out at least some modicum of heat, I'm not moving it, under such a scenario.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
No idle laws here. Not that most would care. At -35c you want heat. Period.
There are plug ins at most shopping centers so people can use their block heaters. Sometimes it's so cold you need to start a vehicle every 6 hours in order to insure it will start at all.
My charger would not start at -30c unless it was plugged in. The fuel was too cold to atomize thus made starting impossible.
So I've learned that an extra 10 minutes at idle in those colder conditions makes the vehicle operate less sluggish and I can see out the window.
And I couldn't care less what the BITOG peanut gallery thinks. Most have never experienced -35c and once they did their opinion would change immediately.
Ultimately your vehicle is an appliance and built to facilitate your life. If letting it warm up longer facilitates your life then let it warm up longer.
Simple.
Great points Clevy. I remember spending a weekend with my cousin who had a house in the Adirondacks. I woke up one morning and it was -35F w/o the wind chill. My van labored to start, I let it run a good ten minutes before even thinking about moving it. I remember it idling slower than normal once it started, and the idle picking up to a faster idle as the engine got a little warmer. Just breathing in it frosted up the windows making driving dangerous. When you don't live in that climate it is very easy to take things for granted.
No idle laws here. Not that most would care. At -35c you want heat. Period.
There are plug ins at most shopping centers so people can use their block heaters. Sometimes it's so cold you need to start a vehicle every 6 hours in order to insure it will start at all.
My charger would not start at -30c unless it was plugged in. The fuel was too cold to atomize thus made starting impossible.
So I've learned that an extra 10 minutes at idle in those colder conditions makes the vehicle operate less sluggish and I can see out the window.
And I couldn't care less what the BITOG peanut gallery thinks. Most have never experienced -35c and once they did their opinion would change immediately.
Ultimately your vehicle is an appliance and built to facilitate your life. If letting it warm up longer facilitates your life then let it warm up longer.
Simple.
Great points Clevy. I remember spending a weekend with my cousin who had a house in the Adirondacks. I woke up one morning and it was -35F w/o the wind chill. My van labored to start, I let it run a good ten minutes before even thinking about moving it. I remember it idling slower than normal once it started, and the idle picking up to a faster idle as the engine got a little warmer. Just breathing in it frosted up the windows making driving dangerous. When you don't live in that climate it is very easy to take things for granted.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Clevy
No idle laws here. Not that most would care. At -35c you want heat. Period.
There are plug ins at most shopping centers so people can use their block heaters. Sometimes it's so cold you need to start a vehicle every 6 hours in order to insure it will start at all.
My charger would not start at -30c unless it was plugged in. The fuel was too cold to atomize thus made starting impossible.
So I've learned that an extra 10 minutes at idle in those colder conditions makes the vehicle operate less sluggish and I can see out the window.
And I couldn't care less what the BITOG peanut gallery thinks. Most have never experienced -35c and once they did their opinion would change immediately.
Ultimately your vehicle is an appliance and built to facilitate your life. If letting it warm up longer facilitates your life then let it warm up longer.
Simple.
Great points Clevy. I remember spending a weekend with my cousin who had a house in the Adirondacks. I woke up one morning and it was -35F w/o the wind chill. My van labored to start, I let it run a good ten minutes before even thinking about moving it. I remember it idling slower than normal once it started, and the idle picking up to a faster idle as the engine got a little warmer. Just breathing in it frosted up the windows making driving dangerous. When you don't live in that climate it is very easy to take things for granted.
And that's exacr my point. It's easy to sit behind a screen all nice and toasty and give a 2 minute warm up instruction when -35c is just a number.
For those of us who actually experience temps like that a 2 minute warm up the an absurd notion that has no place in our day to day lives.
For those who's climate has warmer winters I say do what you feel is right. Ultimately you pay the bill no matter what's decided.
Personally I feel my 4 wheeled appliance is bought to make my life easier,thus I'll operate it as such.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
No idle laws here. Not that most would care. At -35c you want heat. Period.
There are plug ins at most shopping centers so people can use their block heaters. Sometimes it's so cold you need to start a vehicle every 6 hours in order to insure it will start at all.
My charger would not start at -30c unless it was plugged in. The fuel was too cold to atomize thus made starting impossible.
So I've learned that an extra 10 minutes at idle in those colder conditions makes the vehicle operate less sluggish and I can see out the window.
And I couldn't care less what the BITOG peanut gallery thinks. Most have never experienced -35c and once they did their opinion would change immediately.
Ultimately your vehicle is an appliance and built to facilitate your life. If letting it warm up longer facilitates your life then let it warm up longer.
Simple.
Great points Clevy. I remember spending a weekend with my cousin who had a house in the Adirondacks. I woke up one morning and it was -35F w/o the wind chill. My van labored to start, I let it run a good ten minutes before even thinking about moving it. I remember it idling slower than normal once it started, and the idle picking up to a faster idle as the engine got a little warmer. Just breathing in it frosted up the windows making driving dangerous. When you don't live in that climate it is very easy to take things for granted.
And that's exacr my point. It's easy to sit behind a screen all nice and toasty and give a 2 minute warm up instruction when -35c is just a number.
For those of us who actually experience temps like that a 2 minute warm up the an absurd notion that has no place in our day to day lives.
For those who's climate has warmer winters I say do what you feel is right. Ultimately you pay the bill no matter what's decided.
Personally I feel my 4 wheeled appliance is bought to make my life easier,thus I'll operate it as such.
^^ All I can say is it was an eye opener. I spent a lot of time with him during the winter months when he lived there, and learned what the word cold meant. I also learned how it impacted a vehicle. He said there were several mornings that were even colder than what I experienced. But it's dry cold. LOL
Ten seconds in the unheated garage or thirty seconds to one minute max if outside in cold temps and I don't have to clear windows of snow. Drive easy right after.
When I read people warming up cars for ten or fifteen minutes... just to warm it up, I just roll my eyes in disbelief.
Fast warm ups are what synthetic oils are all about!
When I read people warming up cars for ten or fifteen minutes... just to warm it up, I just roll my eyes in disbelief.
Fast warm ups are what synthetic oils are all about!
Originally Posted By: Climb14er
Ten seconds in the unheated garage or thirty seconds to one minute max if outside in cold temps and I don't have to clear windows of snow. Drive easy right after.
When I read people warming up cars for ten or fifteen minutes... just to warm it up, I just roll my eyes in disbelief.
Fast warm ups are what synthetic oils are all about!
An hour gets everything up to operating temp. My suburban can idle for hours on a gallon of fuel. The second remote can be used to lock it up if you're worried about kids.
Synthetics allow starting. Running really cold synthetic oil above idle is not a good thing. Another reason why southern used cars are preferred.
Ten seconds in the unheated garage or thirty seconds to one minute max if outside in cold temps and I don't have to clear windows of snow. Drive easy right after.
When I read people warming up cars for ten or fifteen minutes... just to warm it up, I just roll my eyes in disbelief.
Fast warm ups are what synthetic oils are all about!
An hour gets everything up to operating temp. My suburban can idle for hours on a gallon of fuel. The second remote can be used to lock it up if you're worried about kids.
Synthetics allow starting. Running really cold synthetic oil above idle is not a good thing. Another reason why southern used cars are preferred.
Below 0F my Hyundai Accent would probably never get past 150F when idling in the drive from a cold start. It takes some load to get the temp up. Even when driving and at the 180F t-stat temp it will loose heat if idling or coasting too long.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
No idle laws here. Not that most would care. At -35c you want heat. Period.
There are plug ins at most shopping centers so people can use their block heaters. Sometimes it's so cold you need to start a vehicle every 6 hours in order to insure it will start at all.
My charger would not start at -30c unless it was plugged in. The fuel was too cold to atomize thus made starting impossible.
So I've learned that an extra 10 minutes at idle in those colder conditions makes the vehicle operate less sluggish and I can see out the window.
And I couldn't care less what the BITOG peanut gallery thinks. Most have never experienced -35c and once they did their opinion would change immediately.
Ultimately your vehicle is an appliance and built to facilitate your life. If letting it warm up longer facilitates your life then let it warm up longer.
Simple.
finally someone with some real-world sense.
There are many here, it sounds, that have not experienced real cold. as you say, at those temps, your windshield is going to fog over on the inside unless there is heat in the motor when you take of. it doesn't have to be "warm" it just has to have a modicum of heat to keep the windshield clear. your body heat and breath is enough heat in the vehicle to fog the windows.
I've gotten in vehicles at -10°F(-23°C) and driven away slowly. that, at least, is possible.
but at -20°F (-28°C) or colder, if you do drive away without warming up, you will probably be sitting on the side of the road for a while because you can't see.
I've got a UOA to prove that idling doesn't really hurt anything, so there is no real reason not to if you have to (or want to) IMO.
No idle laws here. Not that most would care. At -35c you want heat. Period.
There are plug ins at most shopping centers so people can use their block heaters. Sometimes it's so cold you need to start a vehicle every 6 hours in order to insure it will start at all.
My charger would not start at -30c unless it was plugged in. The fuel was too cold to atomize thus made starting impossible.
So I've learned that an extra 10 minutes at idle in those colder conditions makes the vehicle operate less sluggish and I can see out the window.
And I couldn't care less what the BITOG peanut gallery thinks. Most have never experienced -35c and once they did their opinion would change immediately.
Ultimately your vehicle is an appliance and built to facilitate your life. If letting it warm up longer facilitates your life then let it warm up longer.
Simple.
finally someone with some real-world sense.
There are many here, it sounds, that have not experienced real cold. as you say, at those temps, your windshield is going to fog over on the inside unless there is heat in the motor when you take of. it doesn't have to be "warm" it just has to have a modicum of heat to keep the windshield clear. your body heat and breath is enough heat in the vehicle to fog the windows.
I've gotten in vehicles at -10°F(-23°C) and driven away slowly. that, at least, is possible.
but at -20°F (-28°C) or colder, if you do drive away without warming up, you will probably be sitting on the side of the road for a while because you can't see.
I've got a UOA to prove that idling doesn't really hurt anything, so there is no real reason not to if you have to (or want to) IMO.
I agree with the above posts as well. Although living in Toronto we do not have too many real cold nights, but when we do, the windshield frosts over very quickly and when it does, it takes a really long time to defrost.
Personally I don't idle my Ford, simply because the temps don't go that low in southern Ontario and because it doesn't have a remote starter.
My wife's Mazda does have a remote starter and she uses it every morning. It has a 10 minute running time, but she hardly ever leaves the car idling that long. Even if she did, I’d rather have her and our children comfortable, than try to protect the machine that is supposed to serve us.
Besides, like I say in many "cold start" related threads, the engines don't seem to care, from a wear point of view, if the oil is thicker or thinner at startup, as long as it is pumpable.
Personally I don't idle my Ford, simply because the temps don't go that low in southern Ontario and because it doesn't have a remote starter.
My wife's Mazda does have a remote starter and she uses it every morning. It has a 10 minute running time, but she hardly ever leaves the car idling that long. Even if she did, I’d rather have her and our children comfortable, than try to protect the machine that is supposed to serve us.
Besides, like I say in many "cold start" related threads, the engines don't seem to care, from a wear point of view, if the oil is thicker or thinner at startup, as long as it is pumpable.
It takes about 30 sec before the clutch fan dies down in the Tacoma. That's what go by. Drive easy till water temp increases.
I think people are ignoring or not realizing there are two views being discussed in this thread.
1) Idling for the vehicle. Manufactures say it isn't necessary and/or good for the vehicle.
2) Idling for your comfort/safety regardless of what is good for the vehicle. Obviously in the drastically cold temps people have to idle and warmup the car for various reasons.
1) Idling for the vehicle. Manufactures say it isn't necessary and/or good for the vehicle.
2) Idling for your comfort/safety regardless of what is good for the vehicle. Obviously in the drastically cold temps people have to idle and warmup the car for various reasons.
Originally Posted By: datech
I am pretty sure that in most locations it is a violation to leave a vehicle unattended with the engine running.
Well, in Switzerland this is a violation and you might get fined for that.
I am pretty sure that in most locations it is a violation to leave a vehicle unattended with the engine running.
Well, in Switzerland this is a violation and you might get fined for that.
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
Originally Posted By: datech
I am pretty sure that in most locations it is a violation to leave a vehicle unattended with the engine running.
Well, in Switzerland this is a violation and you might get fined for that.
It's illegal here in the states too (in some states), but I'll take my chances...I'm not sitting in the vehicle while it warms up, and I'm not driving a cold vehicle, so they can just kiss my...
Originally Posted By: datech
I am pretty sure that in most locations it is a violation to leave a vehicle unattended with the engine running.
Well, in Switzerland this is a violation and you might get fined for that.
It's illegal here in the states too (in some states), but I'll take my chances...I'm not sitting in the vehicle while it warms up, and I'm not driving a cold vehicle, so they can just kiss my...
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: grampi
It's illegal here in the states too (in some states), but I'll take my chances...I'm not sitting in the vehicle while it warms up, and I'm not driving a cold vehicle, so they can just kiss my...
I found it useful to keep car on underground parking. I have one at home and another one at work. If the outside temp is 0 C (32 F) the temp in the garage is around 10 C (50 F) to 16 C (60 F).
You sit in the car with clear windows, no fog, no snow and it is relatively warm. I also choose my commute so that I enter motorway and drive 120 km/h (75 mph) - 130 km/h (80 mph) only when the car is fully warmed up.
It's illegal here in the states too (in some states), but I'll take my chances...I'm not sitting in the vehicle while it warms up, and I'm not driving a cold vehicle, so they can just kiss my...
I found it useful to keep car on underground parking. I have one at home and another one at work. If the outside temp is 0 C (32 F) the temp in the garage is around 10 C (50 F) to 16 C (60 F).
You sit in the car with clear windows, no fog, no snow and it is relatively warm. I also choose my commute so that I enter motorway and drive 120 km/h (75 mph) - 130 km/h (80 mph) only when the car is fully warmed up.
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