How important is the FIAT 9.55535-S2 spec?

[Saxon78]

Originally Posted By: chrisri

To meet / recommended for is not the same as to have actual manuf. approval. That said I think it's good enough if it's coming from big players. If you are afraid to go with full SAPS i would look for MB 229.51 on top of Fiat one.
Cheers.


Yes, it's good enough.
I'm also aware of the win-win partnership between Fiat and Selenia..... I'm not that sure that we, the FIAT buyers, are on the "win" side too. Sée my above posts.
And I prefer FullSAPS. I care for the engine, not the catalyst.
Thx for the review.

 

[Saxon78]

Originally Posted By: Cuore_Sportivo
If you want a Full SAPS 5W-40 then this LM looks pretty good:

PDS: http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/1306%20Synthoil%20High%20Tech%20SAE%205W-40.pdf/$file/1306%20Synthoil%20High%20Tech%20SAE%205W-40.pdf

VOA: http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/4429-4429/


Used it twice, I know many other users.
Becomes noisy and vibrating over 8k km, others confirmed.
Not the best choice, IMO

 

[Cuore_Sportivo]

Originally Posted By: zveroboy
Selenia KPE MA is almost twice the price of others.
But it's the only one with FIAT 9.55535-s2 AND MB229.51
However, I don't find it on the official MB229.51 list of approuvals (your link)! Too récent, maybe?

If it's not there, it's not approved. Period. Same goes for Motul 8100 X-clean 5W-40 that claims MB Approval in the PDS, but the oil is not on the list (5W-30 is).

 

[Saxon78]

Originally Posted By: Cuore_Sportivo

Helix Ultra VOA for comparison:
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/12199-shell-helix-ultra-5w-40-svezhee/


That being thé old Hélix Ultra, not thé récent GTL one.
Anyway, big thx for thé links!!

 

[Saxon78]

Originally Posted By: Cuore_Sportivo


Helix Ultra VOA for comparison:
http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/12199-shell-helix-ultra-5w-40-svezhee/


And it's UOA after 10200km hère
Shell Ultra UOA

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: zveroboy
Originally Posted By: Cuore_Sportivo
If you want a Full SAPS 5W-40 then this LM looks pretty good:

PDS: http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/1306%20Synthoil%20High%20Tech%20SAE%205W-40.pdf/$file/1306%20Synthoil%20High%20Tech%20SAE%205W-40.pdf

VOA: http://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/4429-4429/


Used it twice, I know many other users.
Becomes noisy and vibrating over 8k km, others confirmed.
Not the best choice, IMO


Lm carries only MB 229.3 and not 229.5 specification witch demands (among other things) NOACK under 10%.
It doesn't have FIATs z2 spec. Shell Ultra is really most rounded product on Eu market for petrol Fiats with its high quality and good price. The fact that is FF in a Ferrari/ Maser and that is used in Abarts/Fiats and AR in North America is only bonus. Yeah I know, I sound like a salesman but I'm not.

 

[Cuore_Sportivo]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Lm carries only MB 229.3 and not 229.5 specification witch demands (among other things) NOACK under 10%.


I'm not defending this oil (I won't be using it anyway), but VOA shows a NOACK of 7.7%.

Originally Posted By: chrisri
It doesn't have FIATs z2 spec.


Shell does not too

. It "meets requirements"

. Yeah, I know, only Selenia does.

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Shell Ultra is really most rounded product on Eu market for petrol Fiats with its high quality and good price.


Probably. And if Shell Helix Ultra AT-L 5W-40 was available in Poland, I'd pick it. But it isn't

. Still, this one is only MB 229.31 approved.

 

[chrisri]

Cuore Sportivo, last Ultra I picked was made in Poland. Do you have any info about where is made, quality wise?

To be more specific, do you know anything about Shell refinery in Poland?

 

[Cuore_Sportivo]

All I could find is that they used to produce at Rafineria Gdanska S.A., now LOTOS S.A. and that LOTOS S.A. is the sole fuel provider for Shell in Poland, so I guess the same goes for engine oils. LOTOS produces also their own 229.5 and 229.51 approved oil, as well as they used to provide oils for Subaru Rally Team.
I was even thinking of picking it, but the low-SAPS 5W-40 has a very low TBN of around 6, AFAIR.

Www address below:
http://www.lotos.pl/en/

This would kind of confirm it (only Polish version available - use Google Translator):
http://www.lotos.pl/322/p,174,n,3576/grupa_kapitalowa/centrum_prasowe/aktualnosci/wyzsza_efektywnosc_nowego_hydrokrakingu_gdanskiej_rafinerii

Says hydrocracking in the rafinery is made on Shell license.

 

[chrisri]

Thanks CS for info. I'm not sure if they (Lotus) are still doing hydro cracking for Shell since new GTL base oil is supposed to be coming from Pearl factory in Qatar. They probably do HC for lesser products in range that don't use GTL base oil like Helix 7 and blanding for all products. Polish version doesn't differ from Dutch in any way ( I have both).

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted By: Cuore_Sportivo
If it's not there, it's not approved. Period.


Not quite. The online list is not live, so there is a lag between approval and appearance. Equally if an oil loses its approval (it could expire or change formulation for example) then the oil would continue to appear online for a while until the website is updated.

I believe the dealers have access to a live system.

The ultimate proof of approval is an approval letter in the hands of the oil supplier.

 

[Cuore_Sportivo]

With "Last update: 12/04/2014" it's fresh enough, I think (I assume it's an American date, so it's 4th of December, not 12th of April

).

 

[Saxon78]

Originally Posted By: weasley

The ultimate proof of approval is an approval letter in the hands of the oil supplier.

Some less-known manufacturers, like the russians Lukoil, published those letters on their site
lukoil apprval list

That's one reason why I trust them way more than Motul or Selenia.
In practice, I've used Motul, Selenia, Lukoil and others.
And the best between those three was... you know already

 

[Cuore_Sportivo]

The document for Lukoil MB-Approval states that Approval is valid as long as it is published online - which would at least mean that whatever is there, is approved.

 

[Cuore_Sportivo]

UPDATE:

The list was updated yesterday and it looks Motul X-clean 5W-40 has made it:
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html

 

[Cuore_Sportivo]

Don't know if it was posted here already- quite an interesting find. And this GTL Shell isn't too impressive, Mobil New Life doesn't look bad, but there are better oils:

http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/27699.html

 

[bobbydavro]

This test is irrelevant to engine oils

 

[Cuore_Sportivo]

Why?

 

[bobbydavro]

Where in an engine does an oil get cooked in a glass container at over 300C?

Back to the topic. Some oils claiming MB229.31 maybe capable of mb 229.51 but deliberately underclaimed. This is why you may see mb229.3/.31 with the S2 spec

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Cuore_Sportivo
Why?


Because it in now way represents the environment an engine oil exists in.
M1 0w-40 is one of the most certified oils on the planet,and pennzoil with their gtl base is class leading.
So I'm not sure what better products you think are out there because there aren't.