Oh yes. 110% with the price. I love it
Is Royal purple worth the extra $$?
- Thread starter WillB
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"Fair point NHEMI. I am, in full disclosure, a big fan of RP. I know the VOA's don't show much more than SynPower but the fantastic UOA suggest there is much more than meets the eye." [/quote]
Maybe the difference between RP and VSP is the PAO base oil.
It's possible that RP and VSP use the same (or similar) additive package but RP uses Gr. 4 while VSP uses Gr. 3.
If this is the case then I would only use RP if I intended to extend my OCI beyond 8K
Maybe the difference between RP and VSP is the PAO base oil.
It's possible that RP and VSP use the same (or similar) additive package but RP uses Gr. 4 while VSP uses Gr. 3.
If this is the case then I would only use RP if I intended to extend my OCI beyond 8K
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: wemay
"Fair point NHEMI. I am, in full disclosure, a big fan of RP. I know the VOA's don't show much more than SynPower but the fantastic UOA suggest there is much more than meets the eye."
Maybe the difference between RP and VSP is the PAO base oil.
It's possible that RP and VSP use the same (or similar) additive package but RP uses Gr. 4 while VSP uses Gr. 3.
If this is the case then I would only use RP if I intended to extend my OCI beyond 8K
I agree that the difference probably lies in the base stock difference. I had even considered RP for the conservative 7500 mile oci max (warranty limited) in the Sonata. The 2.0 Turbo is limited to 4800 miles max, so it wouldn't have made sense there.
Hyundai
2014 Sonata 2.4
normal oci - 7500
severe oci - 3750
2013 Santa Fe Sp 2.0T
normal oci - 4800
severe oci - 3000
Originally Posted By: wemay
"Fair point NHEMI. I am, in full disclosure, a big fan of RP. I know the VOA's don't show much more than SynPower but the fantastic UOA suggest there is much more than meets the eye."
Maybe the difference between RP and VSP is the PAO base oil.
It's possible that RP and VSP use the same (or similar) additive package but RP uses Gr. 4 while VSP uses Gr. 3.
If this is the case then I would only use RP if I intended to extend my OCI beyond 8K
I agree that the difference probably lies in the base stock difference. I had even considered RP for the conservative 7500 mile oci max (warranty limited) in the Sonata. The 2.0 Turbo is limited to 4800 miles max, so it wouldn't have made sense there.
Hyundai
2014 Sonata 2.4
normal oci - 7500
severe oci - 3750
2013 Santa Fe Sp 2.0T
normal oci - 4800
severe oci - 3000
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: deven
Great deal. I was also told by their techs that even the API is Grp IV.
All their oil line up is Group IV except for their break in oil and all of them are guaranteed for 12,000 miles(yes even the API certified line)
Funny thing is I can get this deal all the time because its a normal price and not some sale price.
I guess love blinds all.
Look at PAO. http://exxonmobilchemical.ides.com/en-US/ds133853/SpectraSyn%E2%84%A2%208.aspx?I=30156&U=1
Then look at RP API TDS.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_API_MotorOIl.pdf
The flash points, pumping viscosity, NOAK's, do not match up. Even with the added VII's, additives, and ect into the finished product do not match the performance of virgin PAO. I do not understand why people have such a strong desire to support a company that has dubious advertising practices and will stretch the truth of it's product and performance to artificially inflate it's products laboratory performance.
Who knows about it HPS line? Because the technical data sheets are microscopic pictures of used bearing surfaces.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_HPS_Motor_OIl.pdf
People will pay more for anything.
Great deal. I was also told by their techs that even the API is Grp IV.
All their oil line up is Group IV except for their break in oil and all of them are guaranteed for 12,000 miles(yes even the API certified line)
Funny thing is I can get this deal all the time because its a normal price and not some sale price.
I guess love blinds all.
Look at PAO. http://exxonmobilchemical.ides.com/en-US/ds133853/SpectraSyn%E2%84%A2%208.aspx?I=30156&U=1
Then look at RP API TDS.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_API_MotorOIl.pdf
The flash points, pumping viscosity, NOAK's, do not match up. Even with the added VII's, additives, and ect into the finished product do not match the performance of virgin PAO. I do not understand why people have such a strong desire to support a company that has dubious advertising practices and will stretch the truth of it's product and performance to artificially inflate it's products laboratory performance.
Who knows about it HPS line? Because the technical data sheets are microscopic pictures of used bearing surfaces.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_HPS_Motor_OIl.pdf
People will pay more for anything.
Originally Posted By: pbm
"Fair point NHEMI. I am, in full disclosure, a big fan of RP. I know the VOA's don't show much more than SynPower but the fantastic UOA suggest there is much more than meets the eye."
Maybe the difference between RP and VSP is the PAO base oil.
It's possible that RP and VSP use the same (or similar) additive package but RP uses Gr. 4 while VSP uses Gr. 3.
If this is the case then I would only use RP if I intended to extend my OCI beyond 8K [/quote]
RP does claim a PAO basestock. The Synpower is also part PAO as confirmed by their Q&A section as well as a call to customer service. The Add packs are almost identical. That isnt a bad thing, however. Valvoline uses Lubrizol Add-packs im pretty sure which are excellent. While they aren't impressive in a VOA they do show excellent wear in the UOA's here as well as have a history of keeping engines quiet.
If Royal purple is identical add-pack wise to VSP i would personally consider that a plus. As far as base oils, RP may be superior, but we will never know for sure. It's likely a wash in terms of real world performance. Im a huge VSP fan, and i like RP as well.
"Fair point NHEMI. I am, in full disclosure, a big fan of RP. I know the VOA's don't show much more than SynPower but the fantastic UOA suggest there is much more than meets the eye."
Maybe the difference between RP and VSP is the PAO base oil.
It's possible that RP and VSP use the same (or similar) additive package but RP uses Gr. 4 while VSP uses Gr. 3.
If this is the case then I would only use RP if I intended to extend my OCI beyond 8K [/quote]
RP does claim a PAO basestock. The Synpower is also part PAO as confirmed by their Q&A section as well as a call to customer service. The Add packs are almost identical. That isnt a bad thing, however. Valvoline uses Lubrizol Add-packs im pretty sure which are excellent. While they aren't impressive in a VOA they do show excellent wear in the UOA's here as well as have a history of keeping engines quiet.
If Royal purple is identical add-pack wise to VSP i would personally consider that a plus. As far as base oils, RP may be superior, but we will never know for sure. It's likely a wash in terms of real world performance. Im a huge VSP fan, and i like RP as well.
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 29,558
Originally Posted By: wemay
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Edge-Syntec-0W20-Motor-Oil-5-Quart/35931147
If Castrol EDGE, M1, PPP and RP were $1-$2 different at WM, I'd get RP. EDGE is now out of the running if the link above is any indication.
I don't know where that price came from. All black bottle Edge is $21 for the 5 quart jugs. Must be a typo?
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Edge-Syntec-0W20-Motor-Oil-5-Quart/35931147
If Castrol EDGE, M1, PPP and RP were $1-$2 different at WM, I'd get RP. EDGE is now out of the running if the link above is any indication.
I don't know where that price came from. All black bottle Edge is $21 for the 5 quart jugs. Must be a typo?
I have a 01 civic hx. Thinking of running the HPS 5w20 in there. Think its better then their API blend?
Yippeee! Def going to give it a go in 01 civic!
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: deven
Great deal. I was also told by their techs that even the API is Grp IV.
All their oil line up is Group IV except for their break in oil and all of them are guaranteed for 12,000 miles(yes even the API certified line)
Funny thing is I can get this deal all the time because its a normal price and not some sale price.
I guess love blinds all.
Look at PAO. http://exxonmobilchemical.ides.com/en-US/ds133853/SpectraSyn%E2%84%A2%208.aspx?I=30156&U=1
Then look at RP API TDS.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_API_MotorOIl.pdf
The flash points, pumping viscosity, NOAK's, do not match up. Even with the added VII's, additives, and ect into the finished product do not match the performance of virgin PAO. I do not understand why people have such a strong desire to support a company that has dubious advertising practices and will stretch the truth of it's product and performance to artificially inflate it's products laboratory performance.
Who knows about it HPS line? Because the technical data sheets are microscopic pictures of used bearing surfaces.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_HPS_Motor_OIl.pdf
People will pay more for anything.
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
Originally Posted By: deven
Great deal. I was also told by their techs that even the API is Grp IV.
All their oil line up is Group IV except for their break in oil and all of them are guaranteed for 12,000 miles(yes even the API certified line)
Funny thing is I can get this deal all the time because its a normal price and not some sale price.
I guess love blinds all.
Look at PAO. http://exxonmobilchemical.ides.com/en-US/ds133853/SpectraSyn%E2%84%A2%208.aspx?I=30156&U=1
Then look at RP API TDS.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_API_MotorOIl.pdf
The flash points, pumping viscosity, NOAK's, do not match up. Even with the added VII's, additives, and ect into the finished product do not match the performance of virgin PAO. I do not understand why people have such a strong desire to support a company that has dubious advertising practices and will stretch the truth of it's product and performance to artificially inflate it's products laboratory performance.
Who knows about it HPS line? Because the technical data sheets are microscopic pictures of used bearing surfaces.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_HPS_Motor_OIl.pdf
People will pay more for anything.
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
OK, but why are you qualified to make the determination that a particular base stock and additive package are superior to another? Wouldn't you rather rely on the specifications the oil meets?
Just asking. I know I wouldn't be qualified to do that.
Originally Posted By: deven
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
Just asking. I know I wouldn't be qualified to do that.
Originally Posted By: deven
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
OK, but why are you qualified to make the determination that a particular base stock and additive package are superior to another? Wouldn't you rather rely on the specifications the oil meets?
Just asking. I know I wouldn't be qualified to do that.
Originally Posted By: deven
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
OK, so what oil do you use? Im a supporter of small co's such as amsoil, redline, RP, GET ECT..All of these except Amsoil will tell you whats in there!
OK, but why are you qualified to make the determination that a particular base stock and additive package are superior to another? Wouldn't you rather rely on the specifications the oil meets?
Just asking. I know I wouldn't be qualified to do that.
Originally Posted By: deven
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
OK, so what oil do you use? Im a supporter of small co's such as amsoil, redline, RP, GET ECT..All of these except Amsoil will tell you whats in there!
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: kschachn
OK, but why are you qualified to make the determination that a particular base stock and additive package are superior to another? Wouldn't you rather rely on the specifications the oil meets?
Just asking. I know I wouldn't be qualified to do that.
Originally Posted By: deven
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
I don't think anybody here except for say TomNJ is qualified to determine anything and I am no exception to that. My opinions are just that opinions, but I'd want to think(at least it make me feel better lol) that those opinions are educated ones. I have always believed that POE>PAO>Grp III when it comes to basestocks because the cleaner a basestock the cleaner it will burn. Royal Purple HPS line's additives are geared towards car enthusiasts who are into modding and racing thus has high levels of ZDDP and added protection without going over board. As for mfgs oil specs be it HTO6, 507.00, LL-01 or 229. 5...I believe those are for people who have no clue about oil and just want to grab something that meets it. For us here we have a better knowledge about oil and are able to pick something that may not meet those specs but can make an intelligent decision that it most likely will exceed it. I have a 2012 A6 and I use RP 5w40 right now because I believe it to be better than anything 507.00 specd oil. Again my opinion and if i am wrong i will have to live with the consequences. So far knock on wood nothing bad has happened in any of my vehicles.
OK, but why are you qualified to make the determination that a particular base stock and additive package are superior to another? Wouldn't you rather rely on the specifications the oil meets?
Just asking. I know I wouldn't be qualified to do that.
Originally Posted By: deven
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
I don't think anybody here except for say TomNJ is qualified to determine anything and I am no exception to that. My opinions are just that opinions, but I'd want to think(at least it make me feel better lol) that those opinions are educated ones. I have always believed that POE>PAO>Grp III when it comes to basestocks because the cleaner a basestock the cleaner it will burn. Royal Purple HPS line's additives are geared towards car enthusiasts who are into modding and racing thus has high levels of ZDDP and added protection without going over board. As for mfgs oil specs be it HTO6, 507.00, LL-01 or 229. 5...I believe those are for people who have no clue about oil and just want to grab something that meets it. For us here we have a better knowledge about oil and are able to pick something that may not meet those specs but can make an intelligent decision that it most likely will exceed it. I have a 2012 A6 and I use RP 5w40 right now because I believe it to be better than anything 507.00 specd oil. Again my opinion and if i am wrong i will have to live with the consequences. So far knock on wood nothing bad has happened in any of my vehicles.
RP (or any high dollar oil) isn't worth the additional price IMO.
All one has to do is find an oil that meets their vehicles specs. It wont last ant more or less longer with RP.. The only noticeable difference will be a lighter wallet.
But I suppose its like anything else.. A Honda and an Acura will both get you from A to B too. Just depends on personal preferences.
All one has to do is find an oil that meets their vehicles specs. It wont last ant more or less longer with RP.. The only noticeable difference will be a lighter wallet.
But I suppose its like anything else.. A Honda and an Acura will both get you from A to B too. Just depends on personal preferences.
Some history first. I was a dedicated Amsoil user for many years, it worked great for us. But after joining here and learning about oils there is no reason to buy boutique brands at all. Modern products are so good that the average owner will likely get more miles than he needs or wants from any car simply by changing regularly with whatever is on sale.
No purple dye needed here either. It's not BAD oil it's EXPENSIVE oil...
No purple dye needed here either. It's not BAD oil it's EXPENSIVE oil...
Originally Posted By: deven
I have a 2012 A6 and I use RP 5w40 right now because I believe it to be better than anything 507.00 specd oil. Again my opinion and if i am wrong i will have to live with the consequences. So far knock on wood nothing bad has happened in any of my vehicles.
Interesting.
What is this belief based on?
I have a 2012 A6 and I use RP 5w40 right now because I believe it to be better than anything 507.00 specd oil. Again my opinion and if i am wrong i will have to live with the consequences. So far knock on wood nothing bad has happened in any of my vehicles.
Interesting.
What is this belief based on?
Originally Posted By: aa1986
Originally Posted By: deven
I have a 2012 A6 and I use RP 5w40 right now because I believe it to be better than anything 507.00 specd oil. Again my opinion and if i am wrong i will have to live with the consequences. So far knock on wood nothing bad has happened in any of my vehicles.
Interesting.
What is this belief based on?
I have tried Castrol Edge 5w40 and M1 0w40 and both used a quart per 10k OCIs. With RP there is no oil usage. Plus I like the fact that RP has a PAO base with a very stout add pack.
Originally Posted By: deven
I have a 2012 A6 and I use RP 5w40 right now because I believe it to be better than anything 507.00 specd oil. Again my opinion and if i am wrong i will have to live with the consequences. So far knock on wood nothing bad has happened in any of my vehicles.
Interesting.
What is this belief based on?
I have tried Castrol Edge 5w40 and M1 0w40 and both used a quart per 10k OCIs. With RP there is no oil usage. Plus I like the fact that RP has a PAO base with a very stout add pack.
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: deven
Great deal. I was also told by their techs that even the API is Grp IV.
All their oil line up is Group IV except for their break in oil and all of them are guaranteed for 12,000 miles(yes even the API certified line)
Funny thing is I can get this deal all the time because its a normal price and not some sale price.
I guess love blinds all.
Look at PAO. http://exxonmobilchemical.ides.com/en-US/ds133853/SpectraSyn%E2%84%A2%208.aspx?I=30156&U=1
Then look at RP API TDS.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_API_MotorOIl.pdf
The flash points, pumping viscosity, NOAK's, do not match up. Even with the added VII's, additives, and ect into the finished product do not match the performance of virgin PAO. I do not understand why people have such a strong desire to support a company that has dubious advertising practices and will stretch the truth of it's product and performance to artificially inflate it's products laboratory performance.
Who knows about it HPS line? Because the technical data sheets are microscopic pictures of used bearing surfaces.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_HPS_Motor_OIl.pdf
People will pay more for anything.
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
I understand my point may be hard to understand. RP API does not have performance of virgin PAO thus how can it be PAO based?
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: deven
Great deal. I was also told by their techs that even the API is Grp IV.
All their oil line up is Group IV except for their break in oil and all of them are guaranteed for 12,000 miles(yes even the API certified line)
Funny thing is I can get this deal all the time because its a normal price and not some sale price.
I guess love blinds all.
Look at PAO. http://exxonmobilchemical.ides.com/en-US/ds133853/SpectraSyn%E2%84%A2%208.aspx?I=30156&U=1
Then look at RP API TDS.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_API_MotorOIl.pdf
The flash points, pumping viscosity, NOAK's, do not match up. Even with the added VII's, additives, and ect into the finished product do not match the performance of virgin PAO. I do not understand why people have such a strong desire to support a company that has dubious advertising practices and will stretch the truth of it's product and performance to artificially inflate it's products laboratory performance.
Who knows about it HPS line? Because the technical data sheets are microscopic pictures of used bearing surfaces.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_HPS_Motor_OIl.pdf
People will pay more for anything.
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
I understand my point may be hard to understand. RP API does not have performance of virgin PAO thus how can it be PAO based?
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: aa1986
Originally Posted By: deven
I have a 2012 A6 and I use RP 5w40 right now because I believe it to be better than anything 507.00 specd oil. Again my opinion and if i am wrong i will have to live with the consequences. So far knock on wood nothing bad has happened in any of my vehicles.
Interesting.
What is this belief based on?
I have tried Castrol Edge 5w40 and M1 0w40 and both used a quart per 10k OCIs. With RP there is no oil usage. Plus I like the fact that RP has a PAO base with a very stout add pack.
Is Edge 5w40 approved for your Audi?
Edge 0w40 is superior, has more approvals and is PAO.
Originally Posted By: aa1986
Originally Posted By: deven
I have a 2012 A6 and I use RP 5w40 right now because I believe it to be better than anything 507.00 specd oil. Again my opinion and if i am wrong i will have to live with the consequences. So far knock on wood nothing bad has happened in any of my vehicles.
Interesting.
What is this belief based on?
I have tried Castrol Edge 5w40 and M1 0w40 and both used a quart per 10k OCIs. With RP there is no oil usage. Plus I like the fact that RP has a PAO base with a very stout add pack.
Is Edge 5w40 approved for your Audi?
Edge 0w40 is superior, has more approvals and is PAO.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: deven
Great deal. I was also told by their techs that even the API is Grp IV.
All their oil line up is Group IV except for their break in oil and all of them are guaranteed for 12,000 miles(yes even the API certified line)
Funny thing is I can get this deal all the time because its a normal price and not some sale price.
I guess love blinds all.
Look at PAO. http://exxonmobilchemical.ides.com/en-US/ds133853/SpectraSyn%E2%84%A2%208.aspx?I=30156&U=1
Then look at RP API TDS.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_API_MotorOIl.pdf
The flash points, pumping viscosity, NOAK's, do not match up. Even with the added VII's, additives, and ect into the finished product do not match the performance of virgin PAO. I do not understand why people have such a strong desire to support a company that has dubious advertising practices and will stretch the truth of it's product and performance to artificially inflate it's products laboratory performance.
Who knows about it HPS line? Because the technical data sheets are microscopic pictures of used bearing surfaces.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_HPS_Motor_OIl.pdf
People will pay more for anything.
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
I understand my point may be hard to understand. RP API does not have performance of virgin PAO thus how can it be PAO based?
I understan what you are saying. Royal Purple techs tell me that it is PAO base. Until someone does an independant test to prove otherwise I'll take their word for it. I dont put too much emphasis on PDS data sheets because those are just numbers that people extrapolate here on BITOG but at the end of the day all those extrapolation/discussion are merely all opinion based.
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: deven
Great deal. I was also told by their techs that even the API is Grp IV.
All their oil line up is Group IV except for their break in oil and all of them are guaranteed for 12,000 miles(yes even the API certified line)
Funny thing is I can get this deal all the time because its a normal price and not some sale price.
I guess love blinds all.
Look at PAO. http://exxonmobilchemical.ides.com/en-US/ds133853/SpectraSyn%E2%84%A2%208.aspx?I=30156&U=1
Then look at RP API TDS.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_API_MotorOIl.pdf
The flash points, pumping viscosity, NOAK's, do not match up. Even with the added VII's, additives, and ect into the finished product do not match the performance of virgin PAO. I do not understand why people have such a strong desire to support a company that has dubious advertising practices and will stretch the truth of it's product and performance to artificially inflate it's products laboratory performance.
Who knows about it HPS line? Because the technical data sheets are microscopic pictures of used bearing surfaces.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_HPS_Motor_OIl.pdf
People will pay more for anything.
I'd rather pay more to a company that lets me know exactly what base stock and additive package they use(if you dont believe them that's your problem. I believe them because they haven't given me a reason not to take their word) then use a blender that tells me its proprietary information.
I understand my point may be hard to understand. RP API does not have performance of virgin PAO thus how can it be PAO based?
I understan what you are saying. Royal Purple techs tell me that it is PAO base. Until someone does an independant test to prove otherwise I'll take their word for it. I dont put too much emphasis on PDS data sheets because those are just numbers that people extrapolate here on BITOG but at the end of the day all those extrapolation/discussion are merely all opinion based.
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