I thought WIX assembled an Amsoil design.....
Anyone cut open an Amsoil EaO filter?
- Thread starter webfors
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Just ordered a couple EaO13's and XLM 5w20 (only had 5 quarts left)
The better the filter flows the happier I am. With -30 in the winters I want the oil pumped fast with little restriction. If I can get better filtration included also, that's a bonus, and maybe worth the extra price.
Since I'm only going to do 2 oil changes a year, I might change the filter each time. While it might be a waste with regards to the filter life, it would only total $16 more per year. I'll see
It does look a lot like a wix, however I'm not sure. I believe a Wix employee on this forum confirmed they were manufacturing the new EaO line.
The better the filter flows the happier I am. With -30 in the winters I want the oil pumped fast with little restriction. If I can get better filtration included also, that's a bonus, and maybe worth the extra price.
Since I'm only going to do 2 oil changes a year, I might change the filter each time. While it might be a waste with regards to the filter life, it would only total $16 more per year. I'll see
It does look a lot like a wix, however I'm not sure. I believe a Wix employee on this forum confirmed they were manufacturing the new EaO line.
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A local AMSOIL dealer has the exact same cut-open demo filter on display in his store.
( How is the pleated material bonded to the end caps or is it bonded at all? )
Well...I got the filter disecting blues late last night and cut my EaO42 with 10,000 miles of use with synthetics apart.
The ends are bonded to the metal caps and after 10K everything was intact. The material was covered with a dark oil and nothing notable was seen on the material.
I still am not fully convinced that the total square inch/feet of the material can really hold very much engine byproduct material. This would apply to ALL filters. So I am still in a quandry as to when to change a filter....
I am sure the eaO can stand up to many many thousnd of miles of oil going thru it. The question would be....how much loading can it or any other take and still filter the oil?
The ends are bonded to the metal caps and after 10K everything was intact. The material was covered with a dark oil and nothing notable was seen on the material.
I still am not fully convinced that the total square inch/feet of the material can really hold very much engine byproduct material. This would apply to ALL filters. So I am still in a quandry as to when to change a filter....
I am sure the eaO can stand up to many many thousnd of miles of oil going thru it. The question would be....how much loading can it or any other take and still filter the oil?
Just noticed the pics in the links of the EaO posted early in this thread at:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/bigodave/AmsoilEaO15.jpg
look different then the EaO13's I just received. Here's some pics for comparison:
http://webfors.com/filters/20060704_0003.JPG
http://webfors.com/filters/20060704_0005.JPG
http://webfors.com/filters/20060704_0008.JPG
http://webfors.com/filters/20060704_0009.JPG
http://webfors.com/filters/20060704_0013.JPG
Notice the crimping at the top, and the threads, both are different then the first link posted. Is there a reason for the differences between the two sets a pics?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v631/bigodave/AmsoilEaO15.jpg
look different then the EaO13's I just received. Here's some pics for comparison:
http://webfors.com/filters/20060704_0003.JPG
http://webfors.com/filters/20060704_0005.JPG
http://webfors.com/filters/20060704_0008.JPG
http://webfors.com/filters/20060704_0009.JPG
http://webfors.com/filters/20060704_0013.JPG
Notice the crimping at the top, and the threads, both are different then the first link posted. Is there a reason for the differences between the two sets a pics?
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It obviously doesn't bother the engine manufacturers ..otherwise you would see TSB's telling everyone not to use Fram. Their ADBV's are almost assured to leak as they age ..or even right out of the box. You would also probably see recommended procedures for starting with a dry filter after an oil change.
That is, it apparently doesn't add a measurably significant amount of insult to shorten the useful life of an engine.
Now that's not to say that avoiding those events aren't a good thing ...but so would breathing filtered air for your entire life. You're assured to still croak.
That is, it apparently doesn't add a measurably significant amount of insult to shorten the useful life of an engine.
Now that's not to say that avoiding those events aren't a good thing ...but so would breathing filtered air for your entire life. You're assured to still croak.
Just received my EaO13's. Looks identical in design to the CQ(CarQuest)/Wix filter, right down to the crimping, bypass valve, etc. So I suppose the *only* difference between a Wix filter and the EaO filters is the synthetic media. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but they are identical in design.
Since Wix makes this filter, that doesn't surprise me, however I expected a different overall design for some reason. Not that it's a bad thing to be exactly like a Wix filter, since they appear to be very well designed.
I have one SDF13 left, which I will put on the CRV next month, after which I will switch to the EaO. There's currently a CQ (Red) filter on the car now , so it's nice to see the same design in the EaO, since I wasn't certain about the CQ (Red) at first.
Regarding ADBV on this filter, I read a few threads regarding it leaking/failing, meaning that the dirty oil flows back into the engine. Is this a known issue with the EaO filters, or some defect in the early manufacturing process? Or is this just rumours and speculation? Comments please
Since Wix makes this filter, that doesn't surprise me, however I expected a different overall design for some reason. Not that it's a bad thing to be exactly like a Wix filter, since they appear to be very well designed.
I have one SDF13 left, which I will put on the CRV next month, after which I will switch to the EaO. There's currently a CQ (Red) filter on the car now , so it's nice to see the same design in the EaO, since I wasn't certain about the CQ (Red) at first.
Regarding ADBV on this filter, I read a few threads regarding it leaking/failing, meaning that the dirty oil flows back into the engine. Is this a known issue with the EaO filters, or some defect in the early manufacturing process? Or is this just rumours and speculation? Comments please
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I can't comment on the EaO filter ..but I want to comment on the "dirty oil" part of your post. This term has been batted around since the original home grown filter test site, where the person appeared to place tremendous significance to this event.
"It has a poor ADBV which could allow dirty oil to travel back to the engine..." what he failed to add was ...to the exact place it came from in the exact condition as the oil that's in there. The oil on one side of the media or the other has little difference in its state of "clean". One that would, most likely, be hard to measure..at least in terms of ff filters.
That is, "who cares"? What you don't want is the filter back flushing with rapid backflow. If the thing holds good enough to allow only slow return to the engine (holds for so many minutes)..it's fullfilling its "spec". If it holds between the time you shut it off and turn it back on ..it's a great bonus (and one that we've grown to take for granted in determining "good").
"It has a poor ADBV which could allow dirty oil to travel back to the engine..." what he failed to add was ...to the exact place it came from in the exact condition as the oil that's in there. The oil on one side of the media or the other has little difference in its state of "clean". One that would, most likely, be hard to measure..at least in terms of ff filters.
That is, "who cares"? What you don't want is the filter back flushing with rapid backflow. If the thing holds good enough to allow only slow return to the engine (holds for so many minutes)..it's fullfilling its "spec". If it holds between the time you shut it off and turn it back on ..it's a great bonus (and one that we've grown to take for granted in determining "good").
Gary, I don't understand your logic here. ADBV's serve a purpose. That is why they put them on the filter. The engine manufacturers must specify that they should be on the filter, otherwise they would not be there. The ones on my filters generally work quite well. I usually test my used filters by seeing if the oil drains into my collection pan for a day or two.
Who has proven that Frams always leak?
You'd think I would have checked if there was a NAPA store in my area, and lo and behold there is. Just bought a NAPA Gold for $9.95 Canadian. This filter is identical to the EaO, except for the 'nano-fiber' media.
To all Canadians, there are options, you just have to look a little harder... Oh, and if you like Purolator filters, the Valvoline MaxLife is on sale at CT next week for $4.99. While the Napa Gold was double, the regular price for the MaxLife is $9.99. I'll go with the Wix (Napa Gold) when the price is the same. So we do have good deals, just need to search them out
To all Canadians, there are options, you just have to look a little harder... Oh, and if you like Purolator filters, the Valvoline MaxLife is on sale at CT next week for $4.99. While the Napa Gold was double, the regular price for the MaxLife is $9.99. I'll go with the Wix (Napa Gold) when the price is the same. So we do have good deals, just need to search them out
webfors, your pictures are comparing the top "engine side" of the filter base plate on an intact EaO13 filter to the bottom "filter side" of the base plate that has been cut off an EaO15 filter (picture posted by Big O Dave). No change in manufacturing or crimp, you are just comparing opposite sides of the base plate. The black gasket you see in Dave's picture seals against the ABDV, not against the engine block.
largecarman, your concern about total filter surface area does not apply to the Amsoil Ea oil or air filters like it does to typical paper media filters. Think three dimensionally. The synthetic filter media in the Amsoil Ea filters is a depth loading filter media, not a surface loading media. The media is the beauty of its design, and the single biggest contributing factor to its extra long OCI. The contaminants load up throughout the depth of the media so its loading capacity is high. It will also maintain its flow and filter capability as the filter loads with contaminants. On a paper surface area filter, as the filter loads its flow and filtering capacity dimenishes.
There was also concern expressed in several posts about the holes/slots in the center tube that were shown in the picture the Mike posted. You will notice that the second picture Mike posted clearly shows holes/slots at the ond of the center tube too. It lloks as though the center tube is actually manufactured in 3 pieces. There are no holes/slots in the seam area where the pieces of the center tube are put together.
largecarman, your concern about total filter surface area does not apply to the Amsoil Ea oil or air filters like it does to typical paper media filters. Think three dimensionally. The synthetic filter media in the Amsoil Ea filters is a depth loading filter media, not a surface loading media. The media is the beauty of its design, and the single biggest contributing factor to its extra long OCI. The contaminants load up throughout the depth of the media so its loading capacity is high. It will also maintain its flow and filter capability as the filter loads with contaminants. On a paper surface area filter, as the filter loads its flow and filtering capacity dimenishes.
There was also concern expressed in several posts about the holes/slots in the center tube that were shown in the picture the Mike posted. You will notice that the second picture Mike posted clearly shows holes/slots at the ond of the center tube too. It lloks as though the center tube is actually manufactured in 3 pieces. There are no holes/slots in the seam area where the pieces of the center tube are put together.
Quote from stbeaver:
"largecarman, your concern about total filter surface area does not apply to the Amsoil Ea oil or air filters like it does to typical paper media filters. Think three dimensionally. The synthetic filter media in the Amsoil Ea filters is a depth loading filter media, not a surface loading media. The media is the beauty of its design, and the single biggest contributing factor to its extra long OCI. The contaminants load up throughout the depth of the media so its loading capacity is high. It will also maintain its flow and filter capability as the filter loads with contaminants. On a paper surface area filter, as the filter loads its flow and filtering capacity dimenishes."
Thanks for the information on the multilayered media...it makes since, however, I am wondering if the fine layer vs. the course layer fills first and loads up the filter just the same? Or would you think that the multi-layers fill...each doing the work of there purpose thus extending the filter life?
"largecarman, your concern about total filter surface area does not apply to the Amsoil Ea oil or air filters like it does to typical paper media filters. Think three dimensionally. The synthetic filter media in the Amsoil Ea filters is a depth loading filter media, not a surface loading media. The media is the beauty of its design, and the single biggest contributing factor to its extra long OCI. The contaminants load up throughout the depth of the media so its loading capacity is high. It will also maintain its flow and filter capability as the filter loads with contaminants. On a paper surface area filter, as the filter loads its flow and filtering capacity dimenishes."
Thanks for the information on the multilayered media...it makes since, however, I am wondering if the fine layer vs. the course layer fills first and loads up the filter just the same? Or would you think that the multi-layers fill...each doing the work of there purpose thus extending the filter life?
Actually the principle of the EAA and EAO filters is exactly the opposite of what Stbeaver posted....
It's the lack of loading up through the depth of the media that allows these filters to maintain high flow rates over time. The nanofibers stop particulates on the surface without clogging up the holes - like stopping a tennis ball with a fine net rather than a chain link fence. The air/oil can still flow around these particles on the surface and get through the filter media. This is also why the air filter are easy to clean using low pressure shop air. If the particles were imbedded throughout the depth of the media, they'd be very difficult to dislodge.
Read the Amsoil literature on these products and you'll see what I mean....
TS
It's the lack of loading up through the depth of the media that allows these filters to maintain high flow rates over time. The nanofibers stop particulates on the surface without clogging up the holes - like stopping a tennis ball with a fine net rather than a chain link fence. The air/oil can still flow around these particles on the surface and get through the filter media. This is also why the air filter are easy to clean using low pressure shop air. If the particles were imbedded throughout the depth of the media, they'd be very difficult to dislodge.
Read the Amsoil literature on these products and you'll see what I mean....
TS
I have a recent oil filter performance observation using Amsoil Nanofiber oil filters. Pablo, Ted, and Michael feel free to pipe in on this.
For DysonAnalysis customers I seek constant unrestricted filtering/infrequent bypass, and long term use of the full flow filter. I generally try to avoid using parasitic bypass filters for smaller sump units, including smaller pickup truck
and VW type(TDI) diesels.
Many customers are running K&N full flow oil filters and that filter is accomplishing the goals above pretty well. However I have never observed it to filter down to nanoscale level. 0.2 -1.0 um ( micron). The Amsoil fiber media are 40 -2000 nanometers thus they can accomplish this feat and still flow oil at constant design volume levels. A unique layered spiderweb media design seems to contribute to the capability too.
Recent used oil analysis reports we generated may show that capability in the real world. I have asked for permission to post an analysis result that could reflect this effect.
What is more dramatic is that the filter is becoming more efficient as mileage is racked up( at 15000 or so now on the Series 2000 0w30 oil and EaO oil filter)with no oil flow degredation, noted by the user.
Thinner oils contribute to less bypass with most of the available full flow filters mentioned here but the Amsoil offering may be a major step ahead in filtering technology and virtually eliminate the need for bypass filters in smaller sump diesel and gasoline applications.
Reference filter test data derived from the article "Nanofiber-based oil filters for diesel engines" by Dr. Neil Cantor, from Tribology&Lubrication Technology June 2006.
Oil analysis reference data generated by Terry Dyson, DysonAnalysis.
More when I have permission to share.
In the meantime we are suggesting our valued customers use K&N and Amsoil EaO full flow filters if available.
Terry
[ July 16, 2006, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]
For DysonAnalysis customers I seek constant unrestricted filtering/infrequent bypass, and long term use of the full flow filter. I generally try to avoid using parasitic bypass filters for smaller sump units, including smaller pickup truck
and VW type(TDI) diesels.
Many customers are running K&N full flow oil filters and that filter is accomplishing the goals above pretty well. However I have never observed it to filter down to nanoscale level. 0.2 -1.0 um ( micron). The Amsoil fiber media are 40 -2000 nanometers thus they can accomplish this feat and still flow oil at constant design volume levels. A unique layered spiderweb media design seems to contribute to the capability too.
Recent used oil analysis reports we generated may show that capability in the real world. I have asked for permission to post an analysis result that could reflect this effect.
What is more dramatic is that the filter is becoming more efficient as mileage is racked up( at 15000 or so now on the Series 2000 0w30 oil and EaO oil filter)with no oil flow degredation, noted by the user.
Thinner oils contribute to less bypass with most of the available full flow filters mentioned here but the Amsoil offering may be a major step ahead in filtering technology and virtually eliminate the need for bypass filters in smaller sump diesel and gasoline applications.
Reference filter test data derived from the article "Nanofiber-based oil filters for diesel engines" by Dr. Neil Cantor, from Tribology&Lubrication Technology June 2006.
Oil analysis reference data generated by Terry Dyson, DysonAnalysis.
More when I have permission to share.
In the meantime we are suggesting our valued customers use K&N and Amsoil EaO full flow filters if available.
Terry
[ July 16, 2006, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]
Terry,
My experience has mainly been limited to looking at UOA's of the Amsoil and Donaldson ELF filters. The ones I've seen look very clean in terms of solids levels and also show very stable viscosities.
It would be interesting to do some particle counts also and see how those come out.
TS
My experience has mainly been limited to looking at UOA's of the Amsoil and Donaldson ELF filters. The ones I've seen look very clean in terms of solids levels and also show very stable viscosities.
It would be interesting to do some particle counts also and see how those come out.
TS
Customer has graciously allowed posting a representative UOA of EaO oil filter in action.
No oil or fuel adds except for one use of PI over nearly 15,000 miles.
Oil Analysis Labs,Inc...Dyson Premium
Subaru 2.5H4 non turbo. TSO 0w30 EaO filter, neither changed.
49629 ....56300 total miles
7892 .....14643 oil miles
Si 15 ...3
Fe 13 ...2
Cr 2 ...0
Al 7 ...1
Cu 2 ...0
Pb 2 ...0
Sn 0 ...0
Ni 1 ...0
Mo 5 ...1 wear, not additive
Na 14 ...6 dirt
K 5 ...0 dirt
12.3 ...9.6 cSt @100C
Terry
[ July 16, 2006, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]
No oil or fuel adds except for one use of PI over nearly 15,000 miles.
Oil Analysis Labs,Inc...Dyson Premium
Subaru 2.5H4 non turbo. TSO 0w30 EaO filter, neither changed.
49629 ....56300 total miles
7892 .....14643 oil miles
Si 15 ...3
Fe 13 ...2
Cr 2 ...0
Al 7 ...1
Cu 2 ...0
Pb 2 ...0
Sn 0 ...0
Ni 1 ...0
Mo 5 ...1 wear, not additive
Na 14 ...6 dirt
K 5 ...0 dirt
12.3 ...9.6 cSt @100C
Terry
[ July 16, 2006, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]
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