On my 95 Z28 I have been running 10-30 Royal Purple with a Mobil 1 oil filter. Currently I have almost 4200 miles on this oil change and I'm looking to change my oil this week. I have been wanting to go with a K&N oil filter but I have been wondering if their worth the extra cost. One thing I noticed is that the K&N has the lowest micron reading out of any oil filter I have ever seen. The K&N has a reading of 10 microns while something like a WIX or a Fram will be in the 15 micron range. I know the smaller the micron rating the smaller the particles that can be trapped by the filter. So am I correct in thinking the K&N is worth the extra money? I'm trying to stay with low cost options here since I'm still in college. No need to waste an extra ten dollars when I don't have to.
Micron Rating: How important is this in filter consideration?
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I used to use only K&N filters. However, since I've started doing UOA's on a regular basis I don't see any difference in a UOA with a K&N and one with my current Baldwin filters. I've also been tempted to give Wix filters a shot-I don't think I'll see any difference with a Wix either. The K&N filters are very well built, but not worth the double + price.
The book "How to select a motor oil and filter for your car or truck" (very good/informative) from Noria Corporation (bookstore at www.noria.com), cites a GM study that showed that engine life can be increased 2.7 times by using an oil filter with a SAE J1858 efficiency rating of 98.7% for particles of 10 micron size as opposed to/compared to using an economy grade filter with an efficiency rating of 98.7% @ 40 microns (150,000 miles for 40 micron filtration vs. 405,000 miles for 10 micron filtration). Efficiency of the air filter is also very important.I've looked/researched and can only find one oil filter that meets recommendation noted above for 405k miles engine life. The Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil filter exceeds above recommendations with a SAE J1858 multi-pass efficiency rating of 99.2% @ 10 microns ( http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...l_Filters.aspx ) and (PAGE 2) ( http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb...ic;f=6;t=003298 ). With less efficiency, the Puralator Pureone is 93.5% @ 10 microns.
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I think that their 40um lifespan is conservative. I've yet to see a regularly maintained car retire at 150k unless they aren't worth anything or are cracked up in an accident.
Yota,
The link posted is abbreviated, it does not work. Michael Wan previously posted that M1-EP is rated at 50% at 10 micron.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=003298#000000
The link posted is abbreviated, it does not work. Michael Wan previously posted that M1-EP is rated at 50% at 10 micron.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=003298#000000
It no longer says 99.2% at 10 microns on their website. It did before. Hmmmmm.
99.2% of what size particle? It no longer says as noted by Jonny Z above.
I wonder if the hotline would give the same 99.2% at 10 microns if called today. They backed it up on their website before....but no more.
99.2% of what size particle? It no longer says as noted by Jonny Z above.
I wonder if the hotline would give the same 99.2% at 10 microns if called today. They backed it up on their website before....but no more.
yota4me
Is this what you are citing?
Is this what you are citing?
Does not say the micron size?
I dunno, but I no longer worry much about it. So long as the filter meets/exceeds manufacturers requirements & it's not made by Fram
, I'm happy enough with it. Remember, an oil filter is a balancing act & if all else is equal, finer filtration will also give a little more pressure drop.
I have way too many filters right now for the Neon, some Wix & a few others but mostly made by Purolator(new for me), plus two for the 4.6 L Grand Marquis- both made by Purolator, one is a Motorcraft.
What's on my car now? A Purolator made, Advance Auto Total Grip- bought on sale for $1.34.
I have way too many filters right now for the Neon, some Wix & a few others but mostly made by Purolator(new for me), plus two for the 4.6 L Grand Marquis- both made by Purolator, one is a Motorcraft.
What's on my car now? A Purolator made, Advance Auto Total Grip- bought on sale for $1.34.
The reason this statement by Mobil doesn't say any one particular size--like 10 micron--- is because the efficiency numbers quoted 99.2% is for ALL particles sizes. From 1 micron to 100.quote:
Originally posted by Jonny Z:
yota4me
Is this what you are citing?
Does not say the micron size?
Remember that the multi-pass testing induces contaminant of all sizes into the fluid stream at timed intervals.
What a bunch of marketing slick talk. That tells us nothing. What ratio of particles? All particles sizes from 1 to 100 of equal amounts over time? The website did say 99.2% at 10 micron (which would mean like 100% of larger particles and like 50% of say 2 micron particles). I guess that was a false claim and had to be pulled. Hence the current language that does not give any indication of a proper beta ratio.
And from that testing, beta ratio numbers are produced. Why can't they pony up and give the numbers? Wix be the MAN! They give you the beta numbers from the multi-pass testing. All we want is a level playing field so we can compare one manufactures product against another in a non-biased way. I know....WAY TO MUCH TO ASK.
I guess someone alerted Mobil of their website and hotline faux pas. Maybe the legal department from another manufacturer?
Oh, someday when I'm Donald Trump rich, I'll know everything and tell it all. I'll be the JD Power of manufacturing specification awards with a special category to automotive filtration.
Until then, I'll continue with the particle counts.
I guess I'm the only one. Errr .... I mean ... and a few others on BITOG.
Was it engineering that stepped in...or you?
I hear you loud and clear.
I guess I will keep using PureOnes. Not exactly thrilled at the fact that M1-103 covers both 14476 and 14477 Purolator sizes...
Testing filters for beta ratios can be deliberately made very misleading. It is also true that flow rate, type of oil tested, temperature, and the loading on the oil filter can have MAJOR effects on the beta ratio.With all the variables I think comparing filters based on beta ratios is probably not worth much. The best way to evaluate a filter is to get an actual particle count in a car.
Quit complaining.
No filter company is going to give you exactly what you want.
Do you think Wix wants you to know their filters aren't the best most efficient in the marketplace?
Do you think people really care who use them?
Did you ever stop to think that Mobils marketing department used the wrong language when they said their filter were 99.2%efficient at 10 microns? And then engineering stepped in and had them correct their website?
I caught Champ with a problem and had them correct something. It's easy to do.
I have said it before and i'll say it again...
Beta ratios are nice to have but unless you know the actual testing parameters, you only know a portion of comparison data.
Flow rate, add rate, termination points, are all at the discretion of the filter company or OEM who specifies a test.
There are NOT a standard beta test "specs" as some in here would love to have or think there are.
Which is why marketing types have the ability to put a best face on the data. Regardless of which filter manufacturer gives them the data. All filter companies do the same thing.
This is the full Q&A on Mobils website;
Does ExxonMobil make oil filters for use with Mobil 1?
ExxonMobil does offer a very high-quality oil filter that can be used with any motor oil, but it is an especially appropriate companion to Mobil 1. Mobil 1 Extended Performance Oil Filters contain synthetic fibers instead of the typical cellulose filter media. With a 99.2 percent efficiency rating (under SAE J1858 Multi-Pass Efficiency Test), the Mobil 1 filter is much more efficient than a typical oil filter, removing more particles per pass through the filter. In addition, the synthetic fibers in the Mobil 1 filter have less resistance to oil flow, reducing the potential for the filter to restrict the flow of oil to your engine.
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Multi pass means all particle sizes are used. You figure it out what they mean when the say 99.2% efficiency.
BTW..What particle sizes? Read for yourself:
http://www.particle.com/whitepapers_hiac/pdfs/ISO Changes.PDF
No filter company is going to give you exactly what you want.
Do you think Wix wants you to know their filters aren't the best most efficient in the marketplace?
Do you think people really care who use them?
Did you ever stop to think that Mobils marketing department used the wrong language when they said their filter were 99.2%efficient at 10 microns? And then engineering stepped in and had them correct their website?
I caught Champ with a problem and had them correct something. It's easy to do.
I have said it before and i'll say it again...
Beta ratios are nice to have but unless you know the actual testing parameters, you only know a portion of comparison data.
Flow rate, add rate, termination points, are all at the discretion of the filter company or OEM who specifies a test.
There are NOT a standard beta test "specs" as some in here would love to have or think there are.
Which is why marketing types have the ability to put a best face on the data. Regardless of which filter manufacturer gives them the data. All filter companies do the same thing.
This is the full Q&A on Mobils website;
Does ExxonMobil make oil filters for use with Mobil 1?
ExxonMobil does offer a very high-quality oil filter that can be used with any motor oil, but it is an especially appropriate companion to Mobil 1. Mobil 1 Extended Performance Oil Filters contain synthetic fibers instead of the typical cellulose filter media. With a 99.2 percent efficiency rating (under SAE J1858 Multi-Pass Efficiency Test), the Mobil 1 filter is much more efficient than a typical oil filter, removing more particles per pass through the filter. In addition, the synthetic fibers in the Mobil 1 filter have less resistance to oil flow, reducing the potential for the filter to restrict the flow of oil to your engine.
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Multi pass means all particle sizes are used. You figure it out what they mean when the say 99.2% efficiency.
BTW..What particle sizes? Read for yourself:
http://www.particle.com/whitepapers_hiac/pdfs/ISO Changes.PDF
It would seem that somewhere on the filter efficiency curve AND the flow restriction curve AND pressure drop curves, when graphed against projected engine life expectancy, there should be somewhere that an optimum region of specifications might result.
If the size of the particle's trapped/stopped by the filter media is too small, early clogging and increased pressure drop could result. In the modern smaller filter sizes of today, this could be an issue in some cases--especially with extended oil change intervals.
Modern engines might be better sealed against environmental dust and such, so might that be the reason that smaller and smaller filters are being spec'd for late model engines? Production cost might be a side issue, but as durability is also at stake in these modern times, production cost might be less of an issue than it might have been 20 years ago.
The SAE procedure might work well in the laboratory, but what sizes of particles are really inside of our motors? Until the general public can have some sort of knowledge of these things, the advertising operatives will take advantage of that in what they put on their product's containers.
In the mean time, going with the flow of "OEM" approvals/orientations might be the best way to go, being an informed shopper and watching the sales in the process. Bad thing is that a substandard filtering filter will not immediately cause any durability problems (unlike a bad spark plug), so you don't know if you spent money on the K&N filter for naught or if that "sale" filter would have done just as well.
With regard to flow and such, there's an excellent chart in the archives of this website. It might answer some of your concerns.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
If the size of the particle's trapped/stopped by the filter media is too small, early clogging and increased pressure drop could result. In the modern smaller filter sizes of today, this could be an issue in some cases--especially with extended oil change intervals.
Modern engines might be better sealed against environmental dust and such, so might that be the reason that smaller and smaller filters are being spec'd for late model engines? Production cost might be a side issue, but as durability is also at stake in these modern times, production cost might be less of an issue than it might have been 20 years ago.
The SAE procedure might work well in the laboratory, but what sizes of particles are really inside of our motors? Until the general public can have some sort of knowledge of these things, the advertising operatives will take advantage of that in what they put on their product's containers.
In the mean time, going with the flow of "OEM" approvals/orientations might be the best way to go, being an informed shopper and watching the sales in the process. Bad thing is that a substandard filtering filter will not immediately cause any durability problems (unlike a bad spark plug), so you don't know if you spent money on the K&N filter for naught or if that "sale" filter would have done just as well.
With regard to flow and such, there's an excellent chart in the archives of this website. It might answer some of your concerns.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
The question is, are you willing to pay for a better filter? Probably not. How about a stainless steel element that could have a more consistant performance, and be less affected by temperature, pressure and the oil itself. Now you're talking a hundred bucks plus, vs five to ten bucks. Granted, in the future you just wash the ss filter and put it back, but it will take a while to break even. Regular throw away filters are good enough because better is a lot more expensive.
from motorcraft's website the fl820s spec sheet says filters 80% at 20u.
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