Blackstone testing of ancient oil cans.

Shannow

Shannow

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Couple of interesting discussions on the board about how long does oil store, and where they hide the VIIs in monograde 20s back in the day.

Found this blackstone testing of ancient oil bottles...ancient means that they at least stored OK for decades (VOA, no UOA)

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsletters/Gas-Diesel/April-1-2012.php


Interesting
that the 20W20 and the 20W have an insane FP for a lowly monograde dino,,especially compared to the multigrade 40s tested.
Tungsten additives in the Castrol (just)...but Calcium galore.
SB oils didn't have much comparatively of anything. Thank good for modern additive levels
Harley Davidson had an X-Ray proof (Barium) additive in spades.
The "straight 20s" surprisingly had straight VIs.
 
I remember reading this back when it debuted. How about the additive pack and TBN on the Havoline?
 
A few people on BITOG have taken to saying that oils back in the day didn't have all that much ZDDP. They should read these reports from Blackstone. Most of the oils that Blackstone tested from back in the day ran in the range of 1000-1500 ppm of Phosphorous.

There were a couple, like Fox Head and HyVis that were so low in additives, they would cause an uproar over at PQIA similar to Bulleye and City Star.
 
This just struck me funny:

Quote:
Can you by beer from 30 years ago and still drink it? I guess, but chances are it’s long gone bad. How about a 30-year-old can of sardines, or a 5-year-old one for that matter? No way.

Actually, I have had a five year old can of sardines. Really high end sardines are sold by year of harvest, and they'll age in the can, not unlike wine.

/tangent
 
Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
This just struck me funny:

Quote:
Can you by beer from 30 years ago and still drink it? I guess, but chances are it’s long gone bad. How about a 30-year-old can of sardines, or a 5-year-old one for that matter? No way.

Actually, I have had a five year old can of sardines. Really high end sardines are sold by year of harvest, and they'll age in the can, not unlike wine.

/tangent


You make a good point with the sardines and the wine. I was trying to come up with another example. Food stored in vac. sealed mason jars?

Anyways, does 30 year old beer go bad if it's refrigerated the entire time? Seems like that analogy might fall apart when you look at the storage of said food and drink. I don't think anyone is proposing to store motor oil in extreme climates for 30 years.
 
I love the way Blackstone writes on their website and in this newsletter.

The ARCO Graphite -- my gosh! Enough calcium to make a dinosaur skeleton, enough phosphorus to make a dozen Rolex dials glow, and enough zinc to make a hundred oysters feel frisky!
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
A few people on BITOG have taken to saying that oils back in the day didn't have all that much ZDDP. They should read these reports from Blackstone. Most of the oils that Blackstone tested from back in the day ran in the range of 1000-1500 ppm of Phosphorous.

There were a couple, like Fox Head and HyVis that were so low in additives, they would cause an uproar over at PQIA similar to Bulleye and City Star.


Sunoco, Castrol, and Valvoline had less than 800PPM of ZDDP.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
A few people on BITOG have taken to saying that oils back in the day didn't have all that much ZDDP. They should read these reports from Blackstone. Most of the oils that Blackstone tested from back in the day ran in the range of 1000-1500 ppm of Phosphorous.

There were a couple, like Fox Head and HyVis that were so low in additives, they would cause an uproar over at PQIA similar to Bulleye and City Star.


Sunoco, Castrol, and Valvoline had less than 800PPM of ZDDP.


The average Phos for 25 of the oils tested was 1058 ppm.
That's eliminating Fox Head, HyVis, and Lucky Strike from the calculation. Including those 3 would still make an average of 944. Even the K-Mart oil had 1550 ppm.
 
Last edited:
You have to take into account the API SX rating.

It wasn't until about SD that they started putting in more detergents and ZDDP. That's when they discovered that ZDDP was an ant-wear as well agent as as an anti-oxidant agent.
 
ZDDP was discovered in 1936 and purposedly used widely in the 40's. Still SB class. Now detergents as sucinamides and also dispersants is another story. They came later, about the 50's.
 
Originally Posted By: Rosetta
ZDDP was discovered in 1936 and purposedly used widely in the 40's. Still SB class. Now detergents as sucinamides and also dispersants is another story. They came later, about the 50's.


Here is what I stated:

Quote:
It wasn't until about SD that they started putting in more detergents and ZDDP. That's when they discovered that ZDDP was an ant-wear as well agent as as an anti-oxidant agent.


The implication here is: It wasn't until about SD that they started putting in more detergents and [more] ZDDP.

ZDDP was used from 1936 on as an anti-oxidant, but it wasn't until about later SC or early SD so they discovered it was also an anti-wear agent.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dave1251
SD was the current standard in 71?


SD was introduced about 1965/'66 and existed as a standard until about 1972, then SE took over from about 1971 to 1980.

SE had some of the first fuel savings friction modifiers added.
 
Last edited:
Here is an analysis of some Pennzoil Conventional 5W30 API SF:

Metals (ppm)
Iron (Fe) Chromium (Cr) Lead (Pb) Copper (Cu) Tin (Sn) Aluminium (Al) 2
Nickel (Ni) Silver (Ag) Titanium (Ti) Vanadium (V)
Contaminants [sic] (ppm)
Silicon (Si) 3
Sodium (Na) Potassium (K) Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg) 9
Calcium (Ca) 1908
Barium (Ba) Phosphorus (P) 929
Zinc (Zn) 1037
Molybdenum (Mo) 156
Boron (B) 234

Physical Tests
Water (%) Viscosity (cSt 100C) 10.9
Viscosity (cSt 40C) 63.2
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
You have to take into account the API SX rating.

It wasn't until about SD that they started putting in more detergents and ZDDP. That's when they discovered that ZDDP was an ant-wear as well agent as as an anti-oxidant agent.


Would there have been other Phosphorous compounds in the old oils that would not have been part of ZDDP?
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
You have to take into account the API SX rating.

It wasn't until about SD that they started putting in more detergents and ZDDP. That's when they discovered that ZDDP was an ant-wear as well agent as as an anti-oxidant agent.


Would there have been other Phosphorous compounds in the old oils that would not have been part of ZDDP?


Yes, TCP, or tricresyl-phosphate would have been an AW additive component.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Rosetta
ZDDP was discovered in 1936 and purposedly used widely in the 40's. Still SB class. Now detergents as sucinamides and also dispersants is another story. They came later, about the 50's.


Here is what I stated:

Quote:
It wasn't until about SD that they started putting in more detergents and ZDDP. That's when they discovered that ZDDP was an ant-wear as well agent as as an anti-oxidant agent.


The implication here is: It wasn't until about SD that they started putting in more detergents and [more] ZDDP.

ZDDP was used from 1936 on as an anti-oxidant, but it wasn't until about later SC or early SD so they discovered it was also an anti-wear agent.


Sorry, sure, right, MORE! Absolutely right as usual
 
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