Cleans too good?

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Mobil 1 cleans less well than Pennzoil Ultra,so don't worry about being too clean.


Really? Proof will be coming soon? To the OP. M1 does not recommend any additives to there oil. Here is a link.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Using_Additives_Motor_Oil.aspx

We are all aware of what Mobil says.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1

Mobil 1 cleans less well than Pennzoil Ultra,so don't worry about being too clean.


Really? Proof will be coming soon?


According to SOPUS:

http://pureplus.pennzoil.com/

(half way down the page)

Quote:


Disclosure

3 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ 0W-40.

5 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Platinum® Euro Products.

11 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Platinum® Euro and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ 0W-40. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ keeps pistons up to 25% cleaner than Mobil 1; up to 35% cleaner than Valvoline® SynPower®; and up to 40% cleaner than Castrol® EDGE® with SYNTEC®. Pennzoil Platinum® keeps pistons up to 8% cleaner than Mobil 1; up to 17% cleaner than Valvoline® SynPower®; and up to 20% cleaner than Castrol® EDGE® with SYNTEC®.



However, I don't know if that means that PP and PUP are better at cleaning out desposits that are already there. It may just refer to the ability to prevent deposits from forming in the first place. Potentially two different things.


We are all aware of what SOPUS says.




Right.

And you post Mobil links and info as though no one here has read or seen them.



Op.
Mos2 is different than the organic moly found in all other oils. It's a solid lubricant that when under heat and pressure is forced into the microscopic irregularities of metal surfaces and reduces metal on metal as it layers.
Getting back to tigs comment what oil companies do say add additives?
The answer is none.
I'm not picking on you buddy I'm just stating an observation.

I can say from experience using mos2 for years and years that I've never seen any accumulation or ring coking whatsoever on the 2 engines I've torn apart (for fun) that used it. The 4.6 2v in my mustang had it in the sump for many years and over 100000kms and upon teardown the engine inside was spotless.
And the cams even to this day haven't rusted in my garage shelf and are very slick to the touch,even dare I say hard to keep a hold of.

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
We are all aware of what SOPUS says.

Well, they've got ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test results to support their claims, for whatever it's worth. What have you got?

The only thing I'd say is that you need to put some things in perspective. That 25% difference may be so small that it's not relevant during the average life of an engine.


Actually they(SOPUS) show the boss side of pistons. Most know the land side of pistons is where the varnish will likely show since that's where the piston is the hottest. XM has pics as well of pistons but don't compare there results with naming other companies products. Everyone always compares their product to M1. I for one have seen pistons from engines that had 180K using M1 at 8-12K OCIs, and they were very clean and had no visable sign of coking. The clean claim from SOPUS actually shows the real benefit of using a quality synthetic oil, but they disgrace thereself a bit by comparing to M1.


If there was an issue with SOPUS' claims regarding Seq IIIG piston deposits, XOM, Ashland or BP (Pennzoil didn't single out M1) would have petitioned SOPUS to stop running the ad by now. Silence from SOPUS' competitors is basically confirmation of the validity of SOPUS' claims.


No it isn't.
Competitors of all kinds do this all the time. Ford claims there Fusion is a better car than Honda, Dodge claims their truck is better than Chevy or Ford. The thing I do like about XM is they don't make claims their product is better than PU, PP Valvo or others. It's easy to drop a dime on someone or something. Silly though.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: tig1
The thing I do like about XM is they don't make claims their product is better than PU, PP Valvo or others.

Yes, instead, they come up with some vague slogans such as "the world’s leading synthetic motor oil." I believe that falls under marketing puffery and can't even be disputed since it's so nebulous.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
The thing I do like about XM is they don't make claims their product is better than PU, PP Valvo or others.

Yes, instead, they come up with some vague slogans such as "the world’s leading synthetic motor oil." I believe that falls under marketing puffery and can't even be disputed since it's so nebulous.

Absolutely true. How can anyone refute that without a bit more detail?

Marketers get paid for vague creativity that can't be challenged effectively...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
We are all aware of what SOPUS says.

Well, they've got ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test results to support their claims, for whatever it's worth. What have you got?

The only thing I'd say is that you need to put some things in perspective. In reality, that 25% difference may be so small that it's not relevant during the average life of an engine.




It says UP TO though

Which was why I created this picture:

You'll note the piston SOPUS uses happens to look a lot like the top right piston from Mobil's own material, which, conveniently, is their worst one.

So yeah, I'm sure that one of the SOPUS pistons was 25% cleaner than one of the Mobil 1 pistons. But there's the strong possibility that one of the Mobil 1 pistons may have been 25% cleaner than one of the SOPUS pistons too.

That's why terms like "up to" are used. Technically, the statement is 100% accurate and that's all that matters. But it of course, as with all marketing material, is a bit misleading.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
The thing I do like about XM is they don't make claims their product is better than PU, PP Valvo or others.

Yes, instead, they come up with some vague slogans such as "the world’s leading synthetic motor oil." I believe that falls under marketing puffery and can't even be disputed since it's so nebulous.

Vague? How so? M1 oils are the leading synthetic oil sold around the word.

 

[splinter]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Use a top shelf oil (like Mobil 1) and leave the additives for non BITOG members.


Yeah that's kinda what I was thinking too.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
The thing I do like about XM is they don't make claims their product is better than PU, PP Valvo or others.

Yes, instead, they come up with some vague slogans such as "the world’s leading synthetic motor oil." I believe that falls under marketing puffery and can't even be disputed since it's so nebulous.

Vague? How so? M1 oils are the leading synthetic oil sold around the word.

The word "leading" is misleading and pretty much meaningless. I am guessing it means that it has the highest unit sales numbers. By that definition, McDonald's hamburgers are the "world's leading" hamburgers. Best? Not by a long shot. Highest in unit sales? Undoubtedly.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Vague? How so? M1 oils are the leading synthetic oil sold around the word.

What exactly are they leading in? Sales? Corporate profits? Advertizing budgets? Store shelf space?

Which one of the above can tell me how good their oil really is?


Look, I have nothing against M1 products. Heck, I use it myself. I just despise marketing departments, XOM and SOPUS, and just about every other company out there.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
Vague? How so? M1 oils are the leading synthetic oil sold around the word.

What exactly are they leading in? Sales? Corporate profits? Advertizing budgets? Store shelf space?

Which one of the above can tell me how good their oil really is?


Look, I have nothing against M1 products. Heck, I use it myself. I just despise marketing departments, XOM and SOPUS, and just about every other company out there.


You ask. M1 is the leading synthetic oil in the world in sales. Also M1 is hudge in R&D with engine builders of major manufactures of vehicles world wide. Often it's M1 that leads the way in developing new engine certs. here, Europe, and Asia. M1 has worked hard to get where they are.

You despise marketing departments. Well if companies didn't market their products, then we wouldn't have any of the modern things we enjoy everyday. The economy would be 19th century ish, and all of us would be working our tails off in the woods or fields walking working behind horses. I'm retired now from full time work, but I started my own welding business after retirement seven years ago. What was the first thing I did? Began to market my business. Today I have a decent part time job I created because I took my daughters advise(She has a degree in marketing) and sold my skills to the public. By the way, M1 does market their products, but so far they don't nit pick their competion like most others do, and many here notice that as well.

Yes M1 has a good portion of shelf space. What's wrong with that? Yes, XM has hudge profits. Yea!! An American sucess story that we need more of. You see, XM provides a lot of quality jobs. We need far more of that here in this country.

As for the quality of M1 oil..
I would never say it's the best. But it sure is one of em. M1 has worked very well for me these last 36 years.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: NMBurb02

The word "leading" is misleading and pretty much meaningless. I am guessing it means that it has the highest unit sales numbers. By that definition, McDonald's hamburgers are the "world's leading" hamburgers. Best? Not by a long shot. Highest in unit sales? Undoubtedly.


That's a great point I've heard hundreds of times and speaks volumes for the power of good marketing. It also helps prove that good marketing trumps quality for lots of items we use everyday.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: tig1
You despise marketing departments. Well if companies didn't market their products, then we wouldn't have any of the modern things we enjoy everyday.

Really? I'm pretty sure marketing hasn't invented any of these modern things.

I understand products need some help from marketing to get sold. My issue is that a lot of these marketing efforts have turned into major brainwashing campaigns. Tout the same empty slogan long enough and loud enough, and it'll get engraved in your brain and you'll actually start believing it. Sadly, our society is very gullible in many ways and very few people will do the proper research to uncover all the not so great aspects of a product that have not been mentioned by marketing for obvious reasons.

 

[leeharvey418]

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

 

[FocusTi]

Originally Posted By: dparm


Agree, and it's the same reason you see commercials like this:

More rear legroom than the Honda Accord!
More standard horsepower than Toyota Camry!
Lower base price than Volkswagen Passat!

Advertising will always pick-and-choose what "foot" they put forward. For the above advertisement, they would of course conveniently NOT say:

One less crash test star than Ford Fusion!
2mpg highway less than Chevy Malibu!
Only car in its class without standard leather seating!



SO true. Little do they know I want the car that looks the best and has the best 1/4 mile time. LOL

 

[SteveSRT8]

It has been said many times before: "make up your own mind and direct yourself, otherwise there are thousands who are paid to direct you".

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
You despise marketing departments. Well if companies didn't market their products, then we wouldn't have any of the modern things we enjoy everyday.

Really? I'm pretty sure marketing hasn't invented any of these modern things.

I understand products need some help from marketing to get sold. My issue is that a lot of these marketing efforts have turned into major brainwashing campaigns. Tout the same empty slogan long enough and loud enough, and it'll get engraved in your brain and you'll actually start believing it. Sadly, our society is very gullible in many ways and very few people will do the proper research to uncover all the not so great aspects of a product that have not been mentioned by marketing for obvious reasons.


I agree to a point. There are many things that are sold that shouldn't even be on the shelves for sale.