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#3452279 - 08/11/14 10:45 AM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: virginoil]
Nate1979 Online   content


Registered: 04/08/13
Posts: 3330
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
A number of posters have stated that the above M1 oils are not designed for a 10K mile OCI (even with a M1 or Fram Ultra 15K mile oil filter) ? ... Anyone care to elaborate as to why the M1 0W20 / 0W30 oils will not hold up to a 10K mile OCI ?


I suggest you put those people on ignore because they have no idea what they are talking about. :-)


Reread my post.


The OP didn't stipulate that the 10k OCI was extended beyond the manufacturers recommend OCI. So I don't disagree with your statement.
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#3452291 - 08/11/14 10:59 AM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: yvon_la]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 13984
Loc: Top of Virginia
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
repost please link not working


You cannot directly link to an XOM MSDS. It links through a javascript applet.

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/psims.aspx

Search for "0w-20" the EP version will be the last search result displayed. You can download the MSDS from there in Rich Text Format.
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#3452300 - 08/11/14 11:10 AM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: kschachn]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 32283
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: kschachn
It is? Why? You can discern and predict the oil's performance by what you read on an MSDS?

Originally Posted By: Rand
Ah found it 68037-01-4 60-70%

msds

much more impressive than TGMO

with its 70-80% severely hydrotreated


Uh oh, somebody dissed TGMO, looks like they are in for a full-on BITOG beat-down now smirk

Seriously though, you can predict one thing from that data: ultra-low temperature performance, which we already know is better with the EP and AFE oils than TGMO.
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#3452307 - 08/11/14 11:18 AM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: OVERKILL]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 5934
Loc: Upper Midwest
Lol, that wasn't really my point. I was coming from the perspective of someone who in a previous life wrote MSDS sheets for a corporation.

The rest of the oil's performance is IMHO not necessarily related to the base stock.

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Uh oh, somebody dissed TGMO, looks like they are in for a full-on BITOG beat-down now smirk

Seriously though, you can predict one thing from that data: ultra-low temperature performance, which we already know is better with the EP and AFE oils than TGMO.
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#3452311 - 08/11/14 11:22 AM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: kschachn]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 32283
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Lol, that wasn't really my point. I was coming from the perspective of someone who in a previous life wrote MSDS sheets for a corporation.

The rest of the oil's performance is IMHO not necessarily related to the base stock.

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Uh oh, somebody dissed TGMO, looks like they are in for a full-on BITOG beat-down now smirk

Seriously though, you can predict one thing from that data: ultra-low temperature performance, which we already know is better with the EP and AFE oils than TGMO.


This is true, which is why I always focus on what approvals/certifications an oil has smile
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#3452315 - 08/11/14 11:28 AM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: virginoil]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 5934
Loc: Upper Midwest
I agree with this. On my 1MZ-FE I would not go 10,000 miles on any oil, much less 15,000. On the other hand my 1NZ-FE is a completely different story, as is the F22B2 engine in my Accord.

The recommendations by the oil manufacturer for extended drain (ex. M1 EP) are generalizations and not necessarily specific to a particular engine or driving profile.

Originally Posted By: virginoil
IMO mileage on the oil is not determined by the oil manufacturer it is determined by the vehicle manufacturer.

IMO sump capacity is probably the key factor to extended drain. Almost all vehicles I have looked up on lube recommendations with a long drain also have a larger capacity sump compared to the same vehicle and engine of an earlier vintage.

How oil manufacturers can promote extended OCIs beyond the OEM recommendations is unclear
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#3452323 - 08/11/14 11:33 AM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 1269
Loc: quebec canada
So the 0w20 ep oil has approx 60 to 70% pao?confirmed on msds?wow !why wow?this oil also is containing ester if I recall.the way I understand it tho tgmo do the same end product as ep 0w20 but it go at it differently.and at 70% to 80 % for tgmo?I ain't sure it is that far behind ep lubrification wise.Asian often do word thing on cars but they often become the measuring stick .
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#3452520 - 08/11/14 03:40 PM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1327
Loc: GA.
To clarify , I was referring to the "AFE" M1 oils in 0W20 and 0W30 .

Kia / Hyundai state 12 months 3,750 severe and 7,500 miles normal driving conditions (I'm in the normal camp - fewer short trips) .

While I have good intentions to change synthetic oil (using NAPA Gold or equivalent oil filters) by 7,500 miles - I have been known to not get to it until after 8,000 ~ 8,500 miles so was concerned what happens in that last several hundred miles of the OCI ?

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#3453196 - 08/12/14 08:28 AM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 5934
Loc: Upper Midwest
I'll wager nothing happens. But that's just my opinion. You have one of the best synthetic oils on the market there, what is your concern?

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
To clarify , I was referring to the "AFE" M1 oils in 0W20 and 0W30 .

Kia / Hyundai state 12 months 3,750 severe and 7,500 miles normal driving conditions (I'm in the normal camp - fewer short trips) .

While I have good intentions to change synthetic oil (using NAPA Gold or equivalent oil filters) by 7,500 miles - I have been known to not get to it until after 8,000 ~ 8,500 miles so was concerned what happens in that last several hundred miles of the OCI ?
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#3453242 - 08/12/14 09:12 AM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1327
Loc: GA.
Just my previous belief that the M1 AFE synthetic 0W20 / 30 oils were most likely not designed to go past 6,500 miles or so for a normal OCI ... Obviously it now appears they can handle what ever the OEM states as a normal OCI - and then some !

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#3453261 - 08/12/14 09:35 AM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 5934
Loc: Upper Midwest
That's interesting you would say that. Why did you think it was the case?

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Just my previous belief that the M1 AFE synthetic 0W20 / 30 oils were most likely not designed to go past 6,500 miles or so for a normal OCI ... Obviously it now appears they can handle what ever the OEM states as a normal OCI - and then some !
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1994 BMW 530i, 207K
1996 Honda Accord, 220K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 355K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 257K

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#3453468 - 08/12/14 12:40 PM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1327
Loc: GA.
Searched the site - other posters stated that M1 0W20 / 30 AFE was not for longer OCI's ...

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#3453564 - 08/12/14 01:43 PM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
robertcope Offline


Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 735
Loc: TX
They both meet OEM specs, some of which have recommended OCIs that are "longer". That word is vague, at best.

robert

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#3453576 - 08/12/14 01:53 PM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: ChrisD46]
DBMaster Online   content


Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 4149
Loc: Greg Abbott Land
M1 EP 0W-20 claims to be good for up to 15K. I see no reason why you couldn't use the AFE version for 10K if that's your normal interval. I would not hesitate to do so. But, I'm a rebel. I've had too many engines last beyond 200,000 (one over 350,000) miles using 10K OCI's. I want them to explode much sooner than before I decide to sell or trade in the car.

I hope you are getting that I have not worn out an engine...

My supposition is the "Advanced Fuel Economy" simply refers to the fact that it's a 0W oil and that it's similarly formulated to the other "non-EP" Mobil 1 variants. I ran ALL synthetics 10,000 miles in my cars, period.

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#3454245 - 08/13/14 07:35 AM Re: M1 0W20 / 0W30 Synthetics : Only For Shorter OCI ? [Re: Nate1979]
virginoil Offline


Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 1529
Loc: western australia
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
A number of posters have stated that the above M1 oils are not designed for a 10K mile OCI (even with a M1 or Fram Ultra 15K mile oil filter) ? ... Anyone care to elaborate as to why the M1 0W20 / 0W30 oils will not hold up to a 10K mile OCI ?


I suggest you put those people on ignore because they have no idea what they are talking about. :-)


Reread my post.


The OP didn't stipulate that the 10k OCI was extended beyond the manufacturers recommend OCI. So I don't disagree with your statement.


You still missed the point.

The OCI is determined by the vehicle manufacturer not whether Mobil 1 or an oil can do the distance of 10k.

In a vehicle designed for 10k use it, in a vehicle not designed for a 10k OCI it should not be used as general rule without referring to the OEM manual.

This is not a query re Mobil 1 oil but a query regarding any oil and its OCI in general and how that should be applied to IMO.

Whether you agree or not is immaterial to life of the oil.


Edited by virginoil (08/13/14 07:36 AM)
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