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#3442926 - 08/01/14 02:07 PM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: k1rod]
Nickdfresh Offline


Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 5515
Loc: Buffalo, NY
The CAFE conspiracy stuff is just boring at this point. What were people saying when manufacturers began going from 10W-40 to 5W-30?

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#3442974 - 08/01/14 03:17 PM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: Nickdfresh]
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
The CAFE conspiracy stuff is just boring at this point. What were people saying when manufacturers began going from 10W-40 to 5W-30?

This;

_________________________
2007 F150 XL, 4.2 V6, 4R75E Transmission
Castrol Magnatec 5W30, MC FL-400S Oil Filter
"One Filter, One OCI!"

USA

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#3443066 - 08/01/14 04:55 PM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: Nickdfresh]
Oil Changer Offline


Registered: 08/28/06
Posts: 2297
Loc: Michigan
OPEC? My mother's Grand Marquis was back-spec'd to 20. It's had 40, still using 30. No super-heated oil, no broken oil pumps, starts fine in the winter, good MPG.

The BITOG "Thin as possible, thick as necessary" mantra makes me laugh. I bet not one member that parrots that has gone down a grade to go as thin as possible.

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
The CAFE conspiracy stuff is just boring at this point. What were people saying when manufacturers began going from 10W-40 to 5W-30?

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#3443093 - 08/01/14 05:23 PM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: Nickdfresh]
SilverC6 Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 2917
Loc: Southeast
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
The CAFE conspiracy stuff is just boring at this point. What were people saying when manufacturers began going from 10W-40 to 5W-30?


I don't remember a lot of US cars specifying 10W-40 from the factory back in the day.

Most were spec'ed for 10W-30 or straight 30 weight back then.

Granted, we were a GM family.
_________________________
'10 & '11 Camry 0W-20 PP
'11 Landcruiser 5W30 PP
'13 BMW 550IX Castrol 0W40
'08 BMW Z4M Coupe TWS 10W60
'13 BMW M6 BMW 5W30

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#3443178 - 08/01/14 06:45 PM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: Nickdfresh]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 22515
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
The CAFE conspiracy stuff is just boring at this point. What were people saying when manufacturers began going from 10W-40 to 5W-30?

The same thing they say now. wink Without CAFE (and similar regimes over the years), we'd still be stuck with breaker points and carbs, not to mention leaded gas.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3443195 - 08/01/14 07:10 PM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: Nickdfresh]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 37155
Loc: 'Stralia
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
The CAFE conspiracy stuff is just boring at this point. What were people saying when manufacturers began going from 10W-40 to 5W-30?


I dunno, but the SAE papers that I was reading (on microfiche) in the '80s were stating that the 10W-40s were horrid, shear prone, and created rubber like sludge under high speed conditions at times...I thought that they were replaced with 10W30s at the time, not 5s...they would have had similar amounts of the same VIIs that made the 10W40s bad...it was the failure of the 40s that (largely) got HTHS into the J300 tables...and had 0.5cst lower HTHS than say the 15W40s. (modern tables since 2012 have no delineation between 0W, 5W, 10W, and the 15W, 20W, 25W, reflecting that modern VIIS are so much better than in the bad old 10W40 days.

here is what policy makers and the NHTSA is saying

In short, buyers don't value fuel economy as much as society does, and need society (through Cafe) to gelp them along the decision path.

Low viscosity lubricants are number 1 on the decision making tree, as tehy are cheap (valued at $5 per vehicle install), can be applied without redesign, or retesting, and can be backspecced to other models and given credits for same.

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#3443407 - 08/01/14 10:47 PM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: Garak]
hatt Offline


Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 3885
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
The CAFE conspiracy stuff is just boring at this point. What were people saying when manufacturers began going from 10W-40 to 5W-30?

The same thing they say now. wink Without CAFE (and similar regimes over the years), we'd still be stuck with breaker points and carbs, not to mention leaded gas.
What law made Ford stop building the Model T? Since only laws lead to innovation.
_________________________
2013 F150 5.0, Delo 15w-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10w-30, Fram Ultra XG9972

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#3443540 - 08/02/14 03:32 AM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: hatt]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 22515
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: hatt
What law made Ford stop building the Model T? Since only laws lead to innovation.

Reductio ad absurdum?
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3443628 - 08/02/14 08:03 AM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: Garak]
hatt Offline


Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 3885
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: hatt
What law made Ford stop building the Model T? Since only laws lead to innovation.

Reductio ad absurdum?
No more than your post. Companies have been toying with things like fuel injection since the beginning. It certainly didn't start with CAFE. Laws did lead us to the abominations we saw in the late 70's and early 80's before we got decent workable low cost EFI.


Edited by hatt (08/02/14 08:07 AM)
_________________________
2013 F150 5.0, Delo 15w-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10w-30, Fram Ultra XG9972

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#3444219 - 08/02/14 09:52 PM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: hatt]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 22515
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Yes, laws certainly led us to a lot of abominations. The carb that used to sit on my 4.9 L was a fine example of that. Nonetheless, my point was that the law did bring out certain innovations. Horsepower, fuel economy, and low cost of ownership have always helped sell vehicles. In addition to the garbage we saw on the market (i.e. those carbs), OPEC saw to some of that as readily as did any laws.

The automakers have been caught with their pants down several times over the years, by competition, the market, and the government. Don't forget the big collective cry that went out with the elimination of leaded gasoline. Automakers and pundits have cried about the sky falling far too often.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3444282 - 08/02/14 10:49 PM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: k1rod]
hatt Offline


Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 3885
Loc: Florida
I have an 84 K10 with a 250. It would have been easier to envision the Higgs field vs figuring out that bird's nest.
_________________________
2013 F150 5.0, Delo 15w-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10w-30, Fram Ultra XG9972

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#3444296 - 08/02/14 11:00 PM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: hatt]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 22515
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
And a rebuilt emissions carb for the F-150 was worth around $800. Not only didn't I buy it, I threw the old one into the garbage. wink
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3444556 - 08/03/14 09:24 AM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: Garak]
fdcg27 Online   content


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 14666
Loc: OH
The vacuum systems on carbed Hondas were a work worthy of Rube Goldberg himself.
Thankfully, the three bbl carbs were actually pretty easy to rebuild and rebuild kits were pretty inexpensive.
I'm also grateful that all of the vacuum operated thingies as well as all of the tubing were of high enough quality that I never had problems in the three carbed Hondas that we had.
I can't say the same of the vacuum system on the two 123 diesels I had, which actually used a vacuum pump, since diesels have no appreciable vacuum. The suction was in turn used for the brake booster, the door locks, the fuel filler flap lock and the fuel shutoff.
Lots of vacuum tubing running all over the car.
_________________________
17 Forester 6K M1 AFE 0W20
12 Accord LX 69K SS 0W20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W30
95 BMW 318 163K

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#3444571 - 08/03/14 09:40 AM Re: Can I use 5W30 instead of 5W20? [Re: hatt]
fdcg27 Online   content


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 14666
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
The CAFE conspiracy stuff is just boring at this point. What were people saying when manufacturers began going from 10W-40 to 5W-30?

The same thing they say now. wink Without CAFE (and similar regimes over the years), we'd still be stuck with breaker points and carbs, not to mention leaded gas.
What law made Ford stop building the Model T? Since only laws lead to innovation.


The law of supply and demand.
Even at the giveaway prices Model Ts were moving at toward the end, nobody really wanted this slow and obsolete beast.
Had Ford not replaced the T with the slow and obsolete at introduction, but very stylish Model A, Ford would have joined most of the other automakers of the time in liquidation.
Ford would shortly ignite the first horsepower war with its flathead V-8, but that's another story.
_________________________
17 Forester 6K M1 AFE 0W20
12 Accord LX 69K SS 0W20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W30
95 BMW 318 163K

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