Recent Topics
NOACK volatility ratings
by Rat407
15 minutes 28 seconds ago
Engine shots - 07 Accord @ 100k miles
by AccordK24
Today at 06:39 AM
Fender bender city
by CourierDriver
Today at 06:07 AM
Schaeffer's representatives
by FowVay
Today at 04:02 AM
TRADE: Valvoline 5w20 SM dino (Orange County, CA)
by zorobabel
Today at 12:43 AM
How do I identlfy an Exide battery?
by Chris142
Yesterday at 11:48 PM
Has anyone replaced iPhone battery?
by maverickfhs
Yesterday at 09:40 PM
Replace belt tensioner or just the pulley?
by rationull
Yesterday at 09:11 PM
Renewing Black trim
by Eddie
Yesterday at 09:08 PM
Anyone still use Durablend?
by car51
Yesterday at 08:58 PM
Schaeffer's 9000 5w40 - '03 TDI top end pic
by Alex_V
Yesterday at 08:22 PM
What's up with all the storms forming at night?
by motor_oil_madman
Yesterday at 08:21 PM
Costco battery warranty
by Kool1
Yesterday at 08:05 PM
Just did first oil change with microgreen filter
by FlyingTexan
Yesterday at 07:41 PM
Differential oil Infiniti G37x
by chartkor
Yesterday at 07:20 PM
10w40 oil Not ILSAC Approved?
by doolah02
Yesterday at 07:06 PM
Triple A....worth it or not?
by crookedaxle
Yesterday at 06:58 PM
Under valve cover shot
by Ben Boyle
Yesterday at 06:21 PM
how raise the idle speed on a mower?
by edwardh1
Yesterday at 06:04 PM
Switching from Synthetic to Dino
by beadvised
Yesterday at 05:45 PM
Newest Members
jteck75, jviss, xsboredom, Taylorm, banjobilly
60661 Registered Users
Who's Online
75 registered (beanoil, 4WD, 86cutlass307, AEHaas, adamrc, 11 invisible), 1268 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
60661 Members
66 Forums
261623 Topics
4316487 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#3428179 - 07/18/14 06:46 AM kv100 or/and hths100 ?
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 1269
Loc: quebec canada
Ok!shannow pointed me a small data i had not notice and wasnt even comprehending its significance till he was very nice and explained a bit.

My question!is kv100 relevent ?or should user use hths 100 to filter their oil choice.by the look of things it doesnt look like hths 100 value availability is common.
And as shannow pointed out to me ,the hths 100 value is often far from the kv100 value
One thing i like is with the hths 100 value you can compare with its hths 150 value upper temp one (saw a kv100 value of 11 becoming 7.19 (aprox) in hths100.
My question is:how we can know wich value the car maker expect.
Is my car expecting a hths 100 of 10 or a kv100 of 10?
As you can see there might be a lot of room of interpretation
_________________________
Truck driver
Nissan versa note s 2014 Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W-30 supertech st-6607(edition 2016) castrol transynd

Top
#3428239 - 07/18/14 07:49 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: yvon_la]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13031
Loc: Chicago, IL
The HTHS value is always measured at 150 C, not 100.
_________________________
2011 BMW M3 sedan ZCP

Top
#3428253 - 07/18/14 07:59 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: dparm]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 1269
Loc: quebec canada
http://i58.tinypic.com/1s1a2v.jpg

I guess walmart and its oil maker didnt get the memo

Astm d6616 hths 100
Astm d5481 hths 150
_________________________
Truck driver
Nissan versa note s 2014 Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W-30 supertech st-6607(edition 2016) castrol transynd

Top
#3428265 - 07/18/14 08:08 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: yvon_la]
FowVay Online   content


Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 2471
Loc: Southeastern USA
yvon, can you tell us what the difference between centipoise and centistokes is? Do you understand the difference between dynamic and kinematic viscosity?

And precisely what memo is it that Wal-Mart adn WPP didn't get?

Top
#3428272 - 07/18/14 08:13 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: yvon_la]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 35007
Loc: Oz
Before I get dragged further through the muck...

I was trying to explain some stuff on the data sheets in this thread...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3428167/Re:_Walmart_SuperTech_Syntheti#Post3428121

This PDS, and some papers have a high shear 100C for comparison.

Top
#3428276 - 07/18/14 08:17 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: yvon_la]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13031
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
http://i58.tinypic.com/1s1a2v.jpg

I guess walmart and its oil maker didnt get the memo

Astm d6616 hths 100
Astm d5481 hths 150



Well, you can technically measure HTHS at 100 C, but that's a very unusual measurement. I almost never see that posted. I suppose I shouldn't have said that HTHS is 'always' measured at 150 C.
_________________________
2011 BMW M3 sedan ZCP

Top
#3428279 - 07/18/14 08:19 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: yvon_la]
CourierDriver Offline


Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 4208
Loc: Tn.
Hmmm,,bottom, if the pistons and rings and valves are slipping and sliding and all is good, drive baby drive, imho
_________________________
Is it not amazing we pay 20k,30k,40k+ for a car just to sit in traffic and look cool,,did I miss something?

Top
#3428290 - 07/18/14 08:30 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: yvon_la]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 1269
Loc: quebec canada
Sorry guys , its just that from my external point of view ? It look like a fog of marketing number is cloaking the real values .i just try to simplify process selection .i felt hths 100 and hths 150 would do nicelly
_________________________
Truck driver
Nissan versa note s 2014 Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W-30 supertech st-6607(edition 2016) castrol transynd

Top
#3428297 - 07/18/14 08:44 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: yvon_la]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 33004
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
i felt hths 100 and hths 150 would do nicelly

As was pointed out earlier, HTHS is almost never reported at 100C. It is normally reported at 150C, and this measurement is used as one of the critical parameters of many euro specs such as ACEA, VW, MB, BMW, etc. Many of these Euro engines expect the oil's HTHS (150C) Viscosity to be at least 3.5 cP.

The kinematic viscosity at 100C is secondary. Another words, those specs don't care what it is, as long as HTHS at 150C is at least 3.5 cP. Granted, it's quite difficult (or impossible) to formulate an Xw-20 oil that would still have such high HTHS viscosity, so in reality these oils will be at least heavy Xw-30, often Xw-40 grade.

_________________________
'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

Top
#3428301 - 07/18/14 08:54 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: yvon_la]
FowVay Online   content


Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 2471
Loc: Southeastern USA
yvon, I guess that a simple answer to your question regarding which viscosity the car manufacturer expects (ref quote: "My question is:how we can know wich value the car maker expect.") would be to follow the specific requirements that they publish in their owner's manual.

All oils with equal viscosity ratings that are certified to comply with API norms will have similar HT/HS viscosities. It is simply part of the requirement to meet the specification. Oils with higher HT/HS viscosities won't meet the fuel economy requirement.

So in a nut shell, you know which HT/HS viscosity the engine manufacturer wants you to use based upon their specification that they call for in the owner's manual.

An example being that European cars don't specify API oils because they want higher HT/HS viscosities. VW's 502/505, 504/507, BMW's LL-01/LL-04, MB's 229.5/229.51 oils can all be had in 5W-30 viscosity but they all specify HT/HS above 3.5cP's. It is for this reason that their oils don't carry API ratings and no 5W-30 on the shelf at Wal-Mart meets their specifications.

Top
#3428304 - 07/18/14 09:00 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: FowVay]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 33004
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: FowVay
It is for this reason that their oils don't carry API ratings

To be clear, they can and do carry API ratings. They just don't carry the energy conserving ones (starburst symbol or ILSAC GF5).
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

Top
#3428368 - 07/18/14 10:07 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: yvon_la]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13031
Loc: Chicago, IL
OP, the reason that HTHS @ 150C is important is because it most closely approximates the operational viscosity.

Think of it this way: the KV @ 100C value isn't very useful because the oil isn't really spending much time at that temperature, except for maybe when it's sitting in the oil pan (and who cares about that). In the places it truly matters, like bearings, the oil is hitting 150 C or higher.
_________________________
2011 BMW M3 sedan ZCP

Top
#3428384 - 07/18/14 10:23 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: FowVay]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 20398
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: FowVay
All oils with equal viscosity ratings that are certified to comply with API norms will have similar HT/HS viscosities. It is simply part of the requirement to meet the specification. Oils with higher HT/HS viscosities won't meet the fuel economy requirement.

And, the HTHS requirements, be they a minimum or maximum, usually call for the HTHS 150 measure, too. So, if we're without HTHS 100 for the most part, it's just the way it is. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the standard HTHS 150 that we customarily see. It's quite a useful measure, obviously.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Baldwin B1402
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#3428413 - 07/18/14 11:21 AM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: yvon_la]
yvon_la Offline


Registered: 05/20/14
Posts: 1269
Loc: quebec canada
Wow!ty guys,so for simplicity sake acea way (hths 150)is a fair way to rate an oil viscosity. (But would not meet the energy conserving limit for hths 150) ty guy now it make real world sense to me
_________________________
Truck driver
Nissan versa note s 2014 Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W-30 supertech st-6607(edition 2016) castrol transynd

Top
#3428444 - 07/18/14 12:10 PM Re: kv100 or/and hths100 ? [Re: yvon_la]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 33004
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
(But would not meet the energy conserving limit for hths 150)

I'm not really sure what you wrote here.

In simplest terms, an oil that has an HT/HS Viscosity of 3.5 cP or higher will not meet the energy conserving requirements stipulated in ILSAC GF5 spec.

_________________________
'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >