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Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero] #3417020
07/07/14 10:27 AM
07/07/14 10:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,453
in the shop
sw99 Offline
sw99  Offline

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,453
in the shop
I would run 80% Delvac 1300 15w40 (because it's cheap - Under $12 a gallon at WM) and 20% MMO. That seems to really clean the internals. I am currently doing this on my varnished 1ZZFE engine.


2008 Toyota Corolla CE 1.8L
2016 Nissan Versa S 1.6L
2018 Subaru Outback 2.5i
2019 Ford F250 6.7L CCSB

Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero] #3417268
07/07/14 03:56 PM
07/07/14 03:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 211
Sta Catarina, Br
Rosetta Offline
Rosetta  Offline

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 211
Sta Catarina, Br
If using MMO in that engine, I'd imediatelly drop that pan down (after drainage, of course) to clean the pickup screen, or, your lottery.

Last edited by Rosetta; 07/07/14 03:58 PM.

1995 Ford Taurus 3.0 Vulcan 78k miles Mobil 1 5w30
1993 Subaru Impreza EJ16 121k miles Mobil 1 15w50
1997 Kawasaki Ninja ZX9R 38k miles Mobil 1 15w50
Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero] #3417876
07/08/14 05:35 AM
07/08/14 05:35 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11,006
Canberra ACT Australia
sprintman Offline
sprintman  Offline

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 11,006
Canberra ACT Australia
I'd run a thicker oil fwiw. 40W70 would be about right...............

Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: sprintman] #3417951
07/08/14 07:57 AM
07/08/14 07:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 111
MN, USA
niero Offline OP
niero  Offline OP

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 111
MN, USA
Originally Posted By: sprintman
I'd run a thicker oil fwiw. 40W70 would be about right...............


Never knew they ran that thick. What kind of vehicle is it in? What made you go to that weight?


1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Tsi
4.0 L inline 6 cyl
Currently running full synthetic 5w30
Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule] #3418906
07/08/14 09:32 PM
07/08/14 09:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 780
Illinois, USA
Triton_330 Offline
Triton_330  Offline

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 780
Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule

If you have hard evidence you have sludge in your engine, try this from Rislone:

Rislone Engine Treatment

It has special (slow) cleaners and additional friction modifiers. It is a 5W20 so don't run the mix over 500 miles.


Whoa!? The Rislone is actually 5w-20? I actually would have thought it was thinner. If you don't mind me asking, how do you know? Did you run tests on it?


2001 Ford F-150 XLT 4x4 5.4L V8 ~132k miles
-> PPHM 5w-20 w/Fram Ultra
1989 Chevrolet Camaro RS 5.0L TBI V8 ~48k miles
-> Milesyn SB 5w-30 w/Puro Boss
Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero] #3419484
07/09/14 12:10 PM
07/09/14 12:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,235
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
Global Moderator
MolaKule  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,235
Iowegia - USA
Here is how I found out about it (bear with me):

When my dad was seriously ill I had to travel from here to KY to help my sisters out with dad. The car rental group I worked with did not have a vehicle on such a short notice.

So I had to drive a distance of 520 miles one way, in my 2003 Nissan PathFinder, V6 engine. First over 30 mile trip with this vehicle in 7 years. Vehicle has 146,000 miles on it.

After going through the Ozark hills in Missouri, and about 70 miles from Dad's house, I started loosing power on hill climbs. It had never done this before. It would downshift to 3rd or second gear and rev up to 4,000 rpm on climbs.

I pulled off of I-55 and proceeded through the two-lane backroads and nursed it to dad's house.

The next day I took it to my Dad's favorite mechanic who had a big shop in town. He had just recently hired a Nissan mechanic away from a Nissan stealership. The Nissan mechanic diagnosed the problem as a malfunctioning VVT valve, most likely carboned up and sticking.

The shop was two weeks behind (a roof had collapsed in one section of the shop from heavy snow a week before).

The owner and head mechanic suggested I go to the AZ store and use the Rislone product in the meantime. I thought to myself, "Geez, another shade tree goodoleboy mechanic trying to blow a Yankee off" because he was overbooked.

Well, here I was 520 miles from home with a sick PathFinder, so what the heck.

I purchased the Rislone product and put a half quart into the engine. Within 10 miles the engine smoothed out and power was restored. No more downshifts.

Before I left the area I went and told the owner thanks and the engine had returned to normal. He said he has seen this many times where these Nissan engines have not been run hot enough to sweep the carbon from the VVT control valves, especially in these year engines where they had an early VVT control system. He said these valves will stick early on if oil changes are NOT done using the severe service schedule. Well, I have always used the severe service schedule for all my vehicles, especially since I have my own lubricants.

So when I got back home I had it analyzed.

As you know I am not a fan of aftermarket additives and do not believe they are needed, except for specific circumstances.

In this case, the Rislone product did the job.


Last edited by MolaKule; 07/09/14 12:18 PM.

"Science is a body of knowledge, a 'recipe', as it were, for reality. The totality of science is a collection of hard-earned nuggets, using math as a language of expression." Chip Cohen
Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero] #3419500
07/09/14 12:23 PM
07/09/14 12:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,366
KC
badtlc Offline
badtlc  Offline

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,366
KC
thanks for sharing that molakule. i've been contemplating running the concentrate every 50k miles or so because I like to try and keep things as clean as possible. For $5, it is like why not try it now and then?


2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX, M1 AFE 0W20, Fram TG, 167k
2015 Chrysler T&C, 87k+, M1 AFE 0W20, Fram TG OF
2018 Forester Premium 3k+, Factory 0W20, Factory OF
Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero] #3419681
07/09/14 03:16 PM
07/09/14 03:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,019
Va
05LGTLtd Offline
05LGTLtd  Offline

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,019
Va
As far as mixing, I'd go heavier with either MMO or the Rislone.

Since it's a Jeep, Rotella T6 is the first to come to mind.

If sump is over 5qts. Go with M1 HM 10w-40 jug Plus your additive for cost effectiveness. I'd lean toward the rislone with the M1.

Run either for a limited Interval.

I've used LiquiMoly Proline engine flush before. 10 min idle and change. I've also run MMO for a 3k with PYB 10w-40. If using MMO, check you level every fill up or two, it often loses a little volume.

Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule] #3419703
07/09/14 03:42 PM
07/09/14 03:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 669
North Bend
dave5358 Offline
dave5358  Offline

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 669
North Bend
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
<snip>The next day I took it to my Dad's favorite mechanic who had a big shop in town. He had just recently hired a Nissan mechanic away from a Nissan stealership. The Nissan mechanic diagnosed the problem as a malfunctioning VVT valve, most likely carboned up and sticking... In this case, the Rislone product did the job.

Right, Rislone did the job, but so would MMO or a host of other products, provided they contained either solvent or very thin oil or both. The VVT mechanism really wasn't carboned up - it was gummed up - possibly from using oil of too heavy weight, or maybe just drivng the vehicle around town, and not enough highway miles.

Toyotas (and a lot of other VVT vehicles) suffer from this same syndrome (even with oil as heavy as 10w-30). I've seen Toyota oil pressure lights come on (which really gets some attention!) simply because the oil pressure is low (or non-existent) somewhere north of the VVT mechanism. The engine (not counting the VVT) is actually running just fine. There's an odd message on this board from a user who states that he lost oil pressure because of adding L-M MoS2, which somehow clogged his oil filter - an almost impossible scenario. To a certainty, his oil pressure was fine but his oil pressure light came on because his oil weight was too heavy or his VVT engine was otherwise gummed up - all totally unrelated to any oil additive.

Rislone is fine - this is not intended to criticize the product - but it is hardly unique. Modern Japanese engines like very thin oil - the thinner the better.


2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE
Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: dave5358] #3419714
07/09/14 04:00 PM
07/09/14 04:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,366
KC
badtlc Offline
badtlc  Offline

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,366
KC
are you trying to tell a tribologist and blender you know more about oil and how additives work than he does?


2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX, M1 AFE 0W20, Fram TG, 167k
2015 Chrysler T&C, 87k+, M1 AFE 0W20, Fram TG OF
2018 Forester Premium 3k+, Factory 0W20, Factory OF
Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: badtlc] #3419826
07/09/14 05:53 PM
07/09/14 05:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 669
North Bend
dave5358 Offline
dave5358  Offline

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 669
North Bend
Originally Posted By: badtlc
are you trying to tell a tribologist and blender you know more about oil and how additives work than he does?

Did you even read what I wrote?

To quote Molakute from another thread "If it is the [Rislone] Yellow bottled CCase cleaner then you most likely thinned the oil significantly (since it's a 20 weight) so it could have done some minor cleaning." I would be surprised if it is really 20w - more like 10w. Advance Auto advertises Rislone as 'penetrating oil'. Which is to say, it's a lot like MMO (without the fragrance and red color).

Despite the endless threads on BITOG about an endless number of "unique" additive products, most of the products fall into a limited number of groups: fuel additives containing PEA, oil additives with ZDDP, oil additives that are mostly thin mineral oil and solvent (MMO, probably Rislone), oil additives with PTFE (which you should avoid), etc. etc. The big advantage of MMO (in the pale oil solvent group) is it is less expensive.


2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE
Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: dave5358] #3419854
07/09/14 06:23 PM
07/09/14 06:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,235
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
Global Moderator
MolaKule  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,235
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
<snip>The next day I took it to my Dad's favorite mechanic who had a big shop in town. He had just recently hired a Nissan mechanic away from a Nissan stealership. The Nissan mechanic diagnosed the problem as a malfunctioning VVT valve, most likely carboned up and sticking... In this case, the Rislone product did the job.

Right, Rislone did the job, but so would MMO or a host of other products, provided they contained either solvent or very thin oil or both. The VVT mechanism really wasn't carboned up - it was gummed up - possibly from using oil of too heavy weight, or maybe just drivng the vehicle around town, and not enough highway miles.

Toyotas (and a lot of other VVT vehicles) suffer from this same syndrome (even with oil as heavy as 10w-30). I've seen Toyota oil pressure lights come on (which really gets some attention!) simply because the oil pressure is low (or non-existent) somewhere north of the VVT mechanism. The engine (not counting the VVT) is actually running just fine. There's an odd message on this board from a user who states that he lost oil pressure because of adding L-M MoS2, which somehow clogged his oil filter - an almost impossible scenario. To a certainty, his oil pressure was fine but his oil pressure light came on because his oil weight was too heavy or his VVT engine was otherwise gummed up - all totally unrelated to any oil additive.

Rislone is fine - this is not intended to criticize the product - but it is hardly unique. Modern Japanese engines like very thin oil - the thinner the better.


I don't think the VVT valve was carboned up either (that was the mechanic's explanation and I think it was a general explanation). I think it was sticking from either thick varnish or a piece of gummy sludge or both. The oil weight is not in question since I run a 5W30 full synthetic the year round. I do think I will do occasional "Italian Tuneups" and make some longer trips in it just to make sure it gets to max temp.

Quote:
Which is to say, it's a lot like MMO (without the fragrance and red color).


I would have to disagree here.

The Rislone product contains no light hydrocarbon solvents. It does contains a detergent/dispersant chemistry similar to Pennzoil's, an ester, a friction modifier, an AW agent, and testing did show it was a 5W20 weight.

16 oz. of a 5W20 in a 5.5L capacity sump would only reduce the viscosity about 0.5 cSt at the most.

Whether or not MMO would have have the same effect, who knows, but this mechanic has 35 years of experience with all makes of vehicles, and when you're in a pinch, you take the best advice advice you can get and run with it. smile

Just to be clear, this was the Rislone Engine oil treatment, Part Number 100QR seen at

Rislone EOS

and not the engine oil supplement with zinc treatment.

Again, I am not a fan of any third party engine oil additive but this one did solve a problem.

Last edited by MolaKule; 07/09/14 06:38 PM.

"Science is a body of knowledge, a 'recipe', as it were, for reality. The totality of science is a collection of hard-earned nuggets, using math as a language of expression." Chip Cohen
Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero] #3419885
07/09/14 06:50 PM
07/09/14 06:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 211
Sta Catarina, Br
Rosetta Offline
Rosetta  Offline

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 211
Sta Catarina, Br
Just wondering about Poly Ether Amina in the cranckcase (fuel system cleaner like techron). Is it a non-go? I think it is a non-goo.


1995 Ford Taurus 3.0 Vulcan 78k miles Mobil 1 5w30
1993 Subaru Impreza EJ16 121k miles Mobil 1 15w50
1997 Kawasaki Ninja ZX9R 38k miles Mobil 1 15w50
Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: niero] #3419891
07/09/14 06:56 PM
07/09/14 06:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,235
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
Global Moderator
MolaKule  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,235
Iowegia - USA
PEA in a crankcase is useless.

PEA in a fuel mix helps cleaning and combustion.


"Science is a body of knowledge, a 'recipe', as it were, for reality. The totality of science is a collection of hard-earned nuggets, using math as a language of expression." Chip Cohen
Re: Engine Cleaning - What Oil Weight? [Re: MolaKule] #3419974
07/09/14 07:58 PM
07/09/14 07:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,051
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,051
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
<snip>The next day I took it to my Dad's favorite mechanic who had a big shop in town. He had just recently hired a Nissan mechanic away from a Nissan stealership. The Nissan mechanic diagnosed the problem as a malfunctioning VVT valve, most likely carboned up and sticking... In this case, the Rislone product did the job.

Right, Rislone did the job, but so would MMO or a host of other products, provided they contained either solvent or very thin oil or both. The VVT mechanism really wasn't carboned up - it was gummed up - possibly from using oil of too heavy weight, or maybe just drivng the vehicle around town, and not enough highway miles.

Toyotas (and a lot of other VVT vehicles) suffer from this same syndrome (even with oil as heavy as 10w-30). I've seen Toyota oil pressure lights come on (which really gets some attention!) simply because the oil pressure is low (or non-existent) somewhere north of the VVT mechanism. The engine (not counting the VVT) is actually running just fine. There's an odd message on this board from a user who states that he lost oil pressure because of adding L-M MoS2, which somehow clogged his oil filter - an almost impossible scenario. To a certainty, his oil pressure was fine but his oil pressure light came on because his oil weight was too heavy or his VVT engine was otherwise gummed up - all totally unrelated to any oil additive.

Rislone is fine - this is not intended to criticize the product - but it is hardly unique. Modern Japanese engines like very thin oil - the thinner the better.


I don't think the VVT valve was carboned up either (that was the mechanic's explanation and I think it was a general explanation). I think it was sticking from either thick varnish or a piece of gummy sludge or both. The oil weight is not in question since I run a 5W30 full synthetic the year round. I do think I will do occasional "Italian Tuneups" and make some longer trips in it just to make sure it gets to max temp.

Quote:
Which is to say, it's a lot like MMO (without the fragrance and red color).


I would have to disagree here.

The Rislone product contains no light hydrocarbon solvents. It does contains a detergent/dispersant chemistry similar to Pennzoil's, an ester, a friction modifier, an AW agent, and testing did show it was a 5W20 weight.

16 oz. of a 5W20 in a 5.5L capacity sump would only reduce the viscosity about 0.5 cSt at the most.

Whether or not MMO would have have the same effect, who knows, but this mechanic has 35 years of experience with all makes of vehicles, and when you're in a pinch, you take the best advice advice you can get and run with it. smile

Just to be clear, this was the Rislone Engine oil treatment, Part Number 100QR seen at

Rislone EOS

and not the engine oil supplement with zinc treatment.

Again, I am not a fan of any third party engine oil additive but this one did solve a problem.


It sounds like something worth trying. I am not a big fan of oil additives either but I believe they do have their place in certain situations as you say.
Cant beat the price thats for sure. Thanks for the info!


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
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