Hey guys I am looking for some oil for a 1930 Ford Model A. It has the original engine in it. The only problem is that particular car uses mineral oil and it is very expensive to change especially since they have 500 mile oil change intervals. I'm worried of running a modern oil since they do not have oil filters.
oil for a 1930 model A
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Most vintage car owners I know use current spec oil. If you are concerned about not having a rock catcher just continue with your 500 mile OCI's.
JHZR2
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Expensive? For a basic Dino oil?
Heck, most box stores sell API SF and even API SA oils as loss leaders. These oils often specifically say not for cars newer than 19xx.
So you can go that route, but I'd not be afraid of modern additives. They can do great things. They can also clean and condition seals which may or may not be good, so I see where you're coming from more or less.
But I suspect that this car was specified for a 20wt straight oil or something like that back in the day.
I'd consider a modern 10w-30 in there and go with it.
Heck, most box stores sell API SF and even API SA oils as loss leaders. These oils often specifically say not for cars newer than 19xx.
So you can go that route, but I'd not be afraid of modern additives. They can do great things. They can also clean and condition seals which may or may not be good, so I see where you're coming from more or less.
But I suspect that this car was specified for a 20wt straight oil or something like that back in the day.
I'd consider a modern 10w-30 in there and go with it.
Did Ford backspec 5W20 to the Model A ?
Just a suggestion, but Rod Hadfield (an Ausie) put a Merlin in a '55 Chev, and worked with Caltex (Texaco) on oiling the thing.
They decided on Delo500 SAE30 (well actually Caltex SAE30 mower oil, but it was Delo500)...
This should work, Fleet 30/15W40 etc also...maybe avoid friction modified PCMOs
Just a suggestion, but Rod Hadfield (an Ausie) put a Merlin in a '55 Chev, and worked with Caltex (Texaco) on oiling the thing.
They decided on Delo500 SAE30 (well actually Caltex SAE30 mower oil, but it was Delo500)...
This should work, Fleet 30/15W40 etc also...maybe avoid friction modified PCMOs
Pennzoil SAE 30 should work fine. Any 10w30 conventional like Supertech would be my go to.
I don't know much about the engine but this seems reasonable.
These engines from what i read about them use rope or felt seals and that needs to be taken in to account.
http://www.markhaywardismyhero.com/2008/11/18/what-oil-to-use-in-a-model-a-ford/
These engines from what i read about them use rope or felt seals and that needs to be taken in to account.
http://www.markhaywardismyhero.com/2008/11/18/what-oil-to-use-in-a-model-a-ford/
I rebuilt the engine in my old girlfriend's Dad's '29 (been married now for 20+, so a long time ago). We used 10W30 at the time with no ill effects.
In this area of the country, I use either SAE 30 or 40 in Model A engines. They're not critical on oil, but they are splash oiled. I service 4 Model A's and I use An HDEO oil like Chevron Delo or Shell Rotella T with good results. Don't use a low viscosity oil like a 5-20 or 5-30 as those old Fords have more bearing clearance than modern engines especially after they have some miles on them.
Your Model A and my Packard are of similar vintage. I'll check my 1932 lubrication chart, but in general, a 20wt in winter, and a 40wt in summer, with a 30wt in between are what's recommended. So, a 15w40 Dino HDEO fits the year round viscosity specs. My car takes 8 qts. That makes for a $25 annual oil change...I consider that cheap...
Now, here's where you need to be careful. Original engine? If it's been run on non detergent SAE SA oil, then there is a good chance that the engine is full of carbon and sludge build up. Throw a detergent oil in it, and the cleaning can cause problems, like plugged oil pickup or passages.
You really need to determine the condition inside the engine before proceeding. Modern oil is light years ahead of the straight grade mineral oil on which this was intended to run, and your engine will be better off with the HDEO (quicker flow on cold start, keeping it clean) but knowing your engine's condition is the first step.
Now, here's where you need to be careful. Original engine? If it's been run on non detergent SAE SA oil, then there is a good chance that the engine is full of carbon and sludge build up. Throw a detergent oil in it, and the cleaning can cause problems, like plugged oil pickup or passages.
You really need to determine the condition inside the engine before proceeding. Modern oil is light years ahead of the straight grade mineral oil on which this was intended to run, and your engine will be better off with the HDEO (quicker flow on cold start, keeping it clean) but knowing your engine's condition is the first step.
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Did Ford backspec 5W20 to the Model A ?
Did Ford backspec 5W20 to the Model A ?
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Your Model A and my Packard are of similar vintage. I'll check my 1932 lubrication chart, but in general, a 20wt in winter, and a 40wt in summer, with a 30wt in between are what's recommended. So, a 15w40 Dino HDEO fits the year round viscosity specs. My car takes 8 qts. That makes for a $25 annual oil change...I consider that cheap...
Now, here's where you need to be careful. Original engine? If it's been run on non detergent SAE SA oil, then there is a good chance that the engine is full of carbon and sludge build up. Throw a detergent oil in it, and the cleaning can cause problems, like plugged oil pickup or passages.
You really need to determine the condition inside the engine before proceeding. Modern oil is light years ahead of the straight grade mineral oil on which this was intended to run, and your engine will be better off with the HDEO (quicker flow on cold start, keeping it clean) but knowing your engine's condition is the first step.
100% agree with this and here's why.....
I had a 1954 Pontiac with flathead 6 in it that had very low mileage when I got it and the previous owner had only used non detergent oil . I wanted to switch to a multigrade oil but before doing that I pulled the pan and good thing I did , it was full of sludge and crud . I cleaned it up and did a couple short OCI's and it was fine on 10W30 If I recall .
In a model A I think a 10W40 or 15W40 would be fine but as mentioned you have to know if it's clean or full of crud before you switch . Those old engines will stay cleaner with the modern oils and have more protection from wear .
Your Model A and my Packard are of similar vintage. I'll check my 1932 lubrication chart, but in general, a 20wt in winter, and a 40wt in summer, with a 30wt in between are what's recommended. So, a 15w40 Dino HDEO fits the year round viscosity specs. My car takes 8 qts. That makes for a $25 annual oil change...I consider that cheap...
Now, here's where you need to be careful. Original engine? If it's been run on non detergent SAE SA oil, then there is a good chance that the engine is full of carbon and sludge build up. Throw a detergent oil in it, and the cleaning can cause problems, like plugged oil pickup or passages.
You really need to determine the condition inside the engine before proceeding. Modern oil is light years ahead of the straight grade mineral oil on which this was intended to run, and your engine will be better off with the HDEO (quicker flow on cold start, keeping it clean) but knowing your engine's condition is the first step.
100% agree with this and here's why.....
I had a 1954 Pontiac with flathead 6 in it that had very low mileage when I got it and the previous owner had only used non detergent oil . I wanted to switch to a multigrade oil but before doing that I pulled the pan and good thing I did , it was full of sludge and crud . I cleaned it up and did a couple short OCI's and it was fine on 10W30 If I recall .
In a model A I think a 10W40 or 15W40 would be fine but as mentioned you have to know if it's clean or full of crud before you switch . Those old engines will stay cleaner with the modern oils and have more protection from wear .
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I did some work for a guy who had a '51 Pontiac convertible. It blew blue smoke. I told him that the heads had to come off frequently to de-carbonize. the valves.He said that he checks the oil and adds oil as needed and said that he wasn't gonna mess with anything else. It works for him, and I've seen the car tooling around on a few occasions since. The car is sweet , it has anew white top and the paint,is a good pastel yellow paint that is old ,but probably wasn't factory. He got the car from his uncle 30 yrs ago.
Sounds like the perfect candidate for Lucas 70 weight
Lol, but seriously... I would use a motorcycle/atv spec oil, and since Rotella has that, I'd say use Rotella T 15w-40.
Lol, but seriously... I would use a motorcycle/atv spec oil, and since Rotella has that, I'd say use Rotella T 15w-40.
Originally Posted By: 46Harry
In this area of the country, I use either SAE 30 or 40 in Model A engines. They're not critical on oil, but they are splash oiled. I service 4 Model A's and I use An HDEO oil like Chevron Delo or Shell Rotella T with good results. Don't use a low viscosity oil like a 5-20 or 5-30 as those old Fords have more bearing clearance than modern engines especially after they have some miles on them.
The Ford 201 (L head) main bearing spec is .001". That's consistent with a new Acura. As all oil is too thick when cold, I see no benefit to SAE30 over a 5W30.
In this area of the country, I use either SAE 30 or 40 in Model A engines. They're not critical on oil, but they are splash oiled. I service 4 Model A's and I use An HDEO oil like Chevron Delo or Shell Rotella T with good results. Don't use a low viscosity oil like a 5-20 or 5-30 as those old Fords have more bearing clearance than modern engines especially after they have some miles on them.
The Ford 201 (L head) main bearing spec is .001". That's consistent with a new Acura. As all oil is too thick when cold, I see no benefit to SAE30 over a 5W30.
So would you suggest maybe I poor some seafoam into the crankshaft run it around town. Go home pull the oil pan and clean the sludge out and switch to a modern oil?
Originally Posted By: Cjsporl
So would you suggest maybe I poor some seafoam into the crankshaft run it around town. Go home pull the oil pan and clean the sludge out and switch to a modern oil?
No , pull the oil pan , inspect and clean it as needed .
Any cleaning additives could cost you your engine .
So would you suggest maybe I poor some seafoam into the crankshaft run it around town. Go home pull the oil pan and clean the sludge out and switch to a modern oil?
No , pull the oil pan , inspect and clean it as needed .
Any cleaning additives could cost you your engine .
The Model a engines may have speced .001" as a bearing clearance, but they have poured bearings and not inserts as original equipment and as a result, I have never seen a .001" clearance on any poured bearing. I still have my bearing knife that we used on the old Chevy and Ford engines with poured bearings to scrape off excess Babbitt material to get the proper clearance. In service the clearance usually runs more toward .003" and beyond so that is why I use a 30 or 40 grade oil in those engines.
Originally Posted By: 46Harry
The Model a engines may have speced .001" as a bearing clearance, but they have poured bearings and not inserts as original equipment and as a result, I have never seen a .001" clearance on any poured bearing. I still have my bearing knife that we used on the old Chevy and Ford engines with poured bearings to scrape off excess Babbitt material to get the proper clearance. In service the clearance usually runs more toward .003" and beyond so that is why I use a 30 or 40 grade oil in those engines.
Exactly. Plastigauge those bearings, which are very soft, and you'll find some pretty big clearances. 15w40 is a good year 'round choice....
Agree completely with those who recommend a multigrade. There's no advantage to a mono grade in the engine, just make certain that the engine is cleaned up inside before using the modern oil.
Also, with Babbitt bearings, you really have to watch your engine temp...the metal is soft and can degrade quickly with an overheat, leading to trashed rod or main bearings. Their softness should protect the crank from damage with a bearing failure, but if you get steel/steel contact, you're in trouble...
The Model a engines may have speced .001" as a bearing clearance, but they have poured bearings and not inserts as original equipment and as a result, I have never seen a .001" clearance on any poured bearing. I still have my bearing knife that we used on the old Chevy and Ford engines with poured bearings to scrape off excess Babbitt material to get the proper clearance. In service the clearance usually runs more toward .003" and beyond so that is why I use a 30 or 40 grade oil in those engines.
Exactly. Plastigauge those bearings, which are very soft, and you'll find some pretty big clearances. 15w40 is a good year 'round choice....
Agree completely with those who recommend a multigrade. There's no advantage to a mono grade in the engine, just make certain that the engine is cleaned up inside before using the modern oil.
Also, with Babbitt bearings, you really have to watch your engine temp...the metal is soft and can degrade quickly with an overheat, leading to trashed rod or main bearings. Their softness should protect the crank from damage with a bearing failure, but if you get steel/steel contact, you're in trouble...
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: 46Harry
The Model a engines may have speced .001" as a bearing clearance, but they have poured bearings and not inserts as original equipment and as a result, I have never seen a .001" clearance on any poured bearing. I still have my bearing knife that we used on the old Chevy and Ford engines with poured bearings to scrape off excess Babbitt material to get the proper clearance. In service the clearance usually runs more toward .003" and beyond so that is why I use a 30 or 40 grade oil in those engines.
Exactly. Plastigauge those bearings, which are very soft, and you'll find some pretty big clearances. 15w40 is a good year 'round choice....
Agree completely with those who recommend a multigrade. There's no advantage to a mono grade in the engine, just make certain that the engine is cleaned up inside before using the modern oil.
Also, with Babbitt bearings, you really have to watch your engine temp...the metal is soft and can degrade quickly with an overheat, leading to trashed rod or main bearings. Their softness should protect the crank from damage with a bearing failure, but if you get steel/steel contact, you're in trouble...
Do it right and the bearing is uniform, strong, and durable. You can most certainly keep to the .001 if you know what you're doing. Unfortunately, the old timers who did this in their sleep are dying out.
Originally Posted By: 46Harry
The Model a engines may have speced .001" as a bearing clearance, but they have poured bearings and not inserts as original equipment and as a result, I have never seen a .001" clearance on any poured bearing. I still have my bearing knife that we used on the old Chevy and Ford engines with poured bearings to scrape off excess Babbitt material to get the proper clearance. In service the clearance usually runs more toward .003" and beyond so that is why I use a 30 or 40 grade oil in those engines.
Exactly. Plastigauge those bearings, which are very soft, and you'll find some pretty big clearances. 15w40 is a good year 'round choice....
Agree completely with those who recommend a multigrade. There's no advantage to a mono grade in the engine, just make certain that the engine is cleaned up inside before using the modern oil.
Also, with Babbitt bearings, you really have to watch your engine temp...the metal is soft and can degrade quickly with an overheat, leading to trashed rod or main bearings. Their softness should protect the crank from damage with a bearing failure, but if you get steel/steel contact, you're in trouble...
Do it right and the bearing is uniform, strong, and durable. You can most certainly keep to the .001 if you know what you're doing. Unfortunately, the old timers who did this in their sleep are dying out.
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