Why are used Volvo's selling so cheap?
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well after owning a 2001 s80 for 12 years (not turbo) and 218K, I can say it was a pain in the a&& car.
stupid things failed, door locks, ignition switch, cruise control, transmission, tons of sway bar links, brake booster, numerous sets of tie rods, cat ate batteries, radiator, throttle body, two timing belts(ok maint), alarm system, brake calipers, struts, upper strut bearings multiple times, front axle bearings,seat belt re-tractors, exhaust, poer head rests failed
I still have a 2009 c70 mid life crisis convertible for wife, so fr no real issues. BUT I would really think twice on buying another one
stupid things failed, door locks, ignition switch, cruise control, transmission, tons of sway bar links, brake booster, numerous sets of tie rods, cat ate batteries, radiator, throttle body, two timing belts(ok maint), alarm system, brake calipers, struts, upper strut bearings multiple times, front axle bearings,seat belt re-tractors, exhaust, poer head rests failed
I still have a 2009 c70 mid life crisis convertible for wife, so fr no real issues. BUT I would really think twice on buying another one
Originally Posted By: heynow
The same reason that used Jaguars are so inexpensive: Ford owned them and eliminated any quality or reliability they may have once had.
Interesting. Sounds like the old geezers that say Chrysler only killed the 4.0 engine because it was so reliable. I have also been of the impression that Jags (as well as Land Rovers) need to be bought in pairs. One to drive and one as a parts car.
I agree about them not being too desirable. What luxury car actually has a used market compared to Subaru, Toyota or Honda? Also keep in mind that most luxury car owners probably see the dealer for every little service. All that adds up so they are expensive to own then nobody wants them. Also keep in mind the average Volvo owner probably isn't a gear head BITOG'er who knows where to find good Volvo parts cheap.
When taken care of, Volvos are great cars. My girlfriend's S60 has 135,000 and it has been very good to her. I love that car. When not taken care of, I am sure these cars are absolute nightmares to own. Hence why they get that bad reputation.
The same reason that used Jaguars are so inexpensive: Ford owned them and eliminated any quality or reliability they may have once had.
Interesting. Sounds like the old geezers that say Chrysler only killed the 4.0 engine because it was so reliable. I have also been of the impression that Jags (as well as Land Rovers) need to be bought in pairs. One to drive and one as a parts car.
I agree about them not being too desirable. What luxury car actually has a used market compared to Subaru, Toyota or Honda? Also keep in mind that most luxury car owners probably see the dealer for every little service. All that adds up so they are expensive to own then nobody wants them. Also keep in mind the average Volvo owner probably isn't a gear head BITOG'er who knows where to find good Volvo parts cheap.
When taken care of, Volvos are great cars. My girlfriend's S60 has 135,000 and it has been very good to her. I love that car. When not taken care of, I am sure these cars are absolute nightmares to own. Hence why they get that bad reputation.
Back in 05 I looked at the service record of a 98 V70...all 32 pages of it...'nuff said.
I gave my bil a lot of grief over the number of repairs on his 850 that he bought new, he used to try and hide that it was in the shop so many times. He never could keep the brake rotors from warping/pad deposits. It rode terrible. My ciera had a better ride.
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It hold its value nearly like a camry XLE which is good. I sold a 97 camry after 12 years with less miles in excellent shape for $4000. Volvo's reliability is a hit and miss. Some well regard the brand and others don't. Overall one of best cars in safety with very rigid cage design. Ride quality is excellent and low to insure. I would take that over any civic, camry and accord. But that is just me. It is an upscaled car to any average car in the market.
Originally Posted By: Win
If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.
Haha I like that.
If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.
Haha I like that.
They are cheap for the same reason that the 3000mi oil change is still common practice. Rumor and common perception are flat out wrong.
I have zero problems with mine. Not expensive at all.
Honda was ordered by a court last year to repair or replace V6 engines in its 08-12 models. They had the issue with bad transmissions in their 2002 to 2004 Hondas and Acuras. Subaru had their leaky head gasket models. But those companies get a pass because grown people behave a lot more irrationally than they want to admit.
Then you read that some dude remembers in 05 that he ran accross a 98 V70 with a long repair history and that proves that Volvos are indeed junk.
I have zero problems with mine. Not expensive at all.
Honda was ordered by a court last year to repair or replace V6 engines in its 08-12 models. They had the issue with bad transmissions in their 2002 to 2004 Hondas and Acuras. Subaru had their leaky head gasket models. But those companies get a pass because grown people behave a lot more irrationally than they want to admit.
Then you read that some dude remembers in 05 that he ran accross a 98 V70 with a long repair history and that proves that Volvos are indeed junk.
S/V40's were definitely entry level cars. I wouldn't base all of Volvo upon them.
I'm fortunate to have a wagon towards the end-of-the-line of the P1 series. In other words, they had a lot of years to get the bugs out....yet they still missed a few.
Volvos are still sold in the USA. You're probably thinking of SAAB, which went Toes Up.
During the 00's, they had several new model releases + their SUV which came to market with some bad problems (electrical, transmission to name two big ones). That didn't go over well at all with new owners whose cars spent A LOT of time in the shop. However, Volvo isn't the only manufacturer to have this happen. Why be a beta-tester?
Re: costs. Compared to what? A neighbor complained about paying > $1000 to have a fuel pump replaced in his not-so-old Chevy Sub. Taking any car to the dealer for post-warranty service is going to really lighten your wallet. It's why so many lease or get a new one on a regular basis, particularly now as cars, all cars, are incredibly complex.
My indy has a sticker on his tool chest lid that says "Actually, this IS rocket science..." I remarked where his multi-channel logic analyzer was (it allows you to capture a bit stream and see the communications traffic between various controllers). I wasn't kidding either....
I'm fortunate in that I know where to buy OEM parts at significant discounts, good at turning my own wrench, and tend to keep my cars for a long time when satisfied with them. Though old, it's a known quantity and risk because it's been properly cared for.
Lastly, there is a reason BMW is known for 'Bite My Wallet'!
I'm fortunate to have a wagon towards the end-of-the-line of the P1 series. In other words, they had a lot of years to get the bugs out....yet they still missed a few.
Volvos are still sold in the USA. You're probably thinking of SAAB, which went Toes Up.
During the 00's, they had several new model releases + their SUV which came to market with some bad problems (electrical, transmission to name two big ones). That didn't go over well at all with new owners whose cars spent A LOT of time in the shop. However, Volvo isn't the only manufacturer to have this happen. Why be a beta-tester?
Re: costs. Compared to what? A neighbor complained about paying > $1000 to have a fuel pump replaced in his not-so-old Chevy Sub. Taking any car to the dealer for post-warranty service is going to really lighten your wallet. It's why so many lease or get a new one on a regular basis, particularly now as cars, all cars, are incredibly complex.
My indy has a sticker on his tool chest lid that says "Actually, this IS rocket science..." I remarked where his multi-channel logic analyzer was (it allows you to capture a bit stream and see the communications traffic between various controllers). I wasn't kidding either....
I'm fortunate in that I know where to buy OEM parts at significant discounts, good at turning my own wrench, and tend to keep my cars for a long time when satisfied with them. Though old, it's a known quantity and risk because it's been properly cared for.
Lastly, there is a reason BMW is known for 'Bite My Wallet'!
Originally Posted By: cudavid
well after owning a 2001 s80 for 12 years (not turbo) and 218K, I can say it was a pain in the a&& car.
stupid things failed, door locks, ignition switch, cruise control, transmission, tons of sway bar links, brake booster, numerous sets of tie rods, cat ate batteries, radiator, throttle body, two timing belts(ok maint), alarm system, brake calipers, struts, upper strut bearings multiple times, front axle bearings,seat belt re-tractors, exhaust, poer head rests failed
I still have a 2009 c70 mid life crisis convertible for wife, so fr no real issues. BUT I would really think twice on buying another one
Yep, you got one of the new(er), earlier S80's when they had lots of problems. I really wanted to like them, but remained skeptical. Didn't really like the styling, nor the twin-turbo mess (WTH?). They were trying to reach a new audience, compete with BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche. Perhaps to survive or reinnovate.
Glad to hear your later model C70 is doing much better.
well after owning a 2001 s80 for 12 years (not turbo) and 218K, I can say it was a pain in the a&& car.
stupid things failed, door locks, ignition switch, cruise control, transmission, tons of sway bar links, brake booster, numerous sets of tie rods, cat ate batteries, radiator, throttle body, two timing belts(ok maint), alarm system, brake calipers, struts, upper strut bearings multiple times, front axle bearings,seat belt re-tractors, exhaust, poer head rests failed
I still have a 2009 c70 mid life crisis convertible for wife, so fr no real issues. BUT I would really think twice on buying another one
Yep, you got one of the new(er), earlier S80's when they had lots of problems. I really wanted to like them, but remained skeptical. Didn't really like the styling, nor the twin-turbo mess (WTH?). They were trying to reach a new audience, compete with BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche. Perhaps to survive or reinnovate.
Glad to hear your later model C70 is doing much better.
All old high end cars are cheap. The average car buyer doesn't want to deal with the added upkeep.
Originally Posted By: mormit
Then you read that some dude remembers in 05 that he ran accross a 98 V70 with a long repair history and that proves that Volvos are indeed junk.
I made no such generalization...just that with 30+ pages of repairs it was a car to pass on...it surprised the heck out of me that ANY car let alone a Volvo would have that many repairs in 7 years and 100k miles...
...as proof, my GF at the time bought an 04 V70 with 7500 miles for 2/3 MSRP...a great deal and it's now well over 200k miles and running strong.
Then you read that some dude remembers in 05 that he ran accross a 98 V70 with a long repair history and that proves that Volvos are indeed junk.
I made no such generalization...just that with 30+ pages of repairs it was a car to pass on...it surprised the heck out of me that ANY car let alone a Volvo would have that many repairs in 7 years and 100k miles...
...as proof, my GF at the time bought an 04 V70 with 7500 miles for 2/3 MSRP...a great deal and it's now well over 200k miles and running strong.
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Originally Posted By: Nayov
I can't but help think about GHT. Am I the only one who misses him and his 'baller' Volvo tales of woe sagas?
I have to believe that he still lurks around here under another alias. GHT are you there?
I can't but help think about GHT. Am I the only one who misses him and his 'baller' Volvo tales of woe sagas?
I have to believe that he still lurks around here under another alias. GHT are you there?
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
I made no such generalization...
Sorry. Didn't say that you yourself did but there are alot of incorrect assumptions about the brand out there. I more clearly should have said that some other brands, while putting out good cars, have had high profile quality lapses and have been forgiven. On the other hand, somebody reads one anecdote on the web about a Volvo and they write the brand off.
I made no such generalization...
Sorry. Didn't say that you yourself did but there are alot of incorrect assumptions about the brand out there. I more clearly should have said that some other brands, while putting out good cars, have had high profile quality lapses and have been forgiven. On the other hand, somebody reads one anecdote on the web about a Volvo and they write the brand off.
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Originally Posted By: mormit
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
I made no such generalization...
Sorry. Didn't say that you yourself did but there are alot of incorrect assumptions about the brand out there. I more clearly should have said that some other brands, while putting out good cars, have had high profile quality lapses and have been forgiven. On the other hand, somebody reads one anecdote on the web about a Volvo and they write the brand off.
Everyone likes to get on the hate train.
If everybody was actually honest with themselves, they'd admit that they have heard the same horror stories about even their favorite car brands.
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
I made no such generalization...
Sorry. Didn't say that you yourself did but there are alot of incorrect assumptions about the brand out there. I more clearly should have said that some other brands, while putting out good cars, have had high profile quality lapses and have been forgiven. On the other hand, somebody reads one anecdote on the web about a Volvo and they write the brand off.
Everyone likes to get on the hate train.
If everybody was actually honest with themselves, they'd admit that they have heard the same horror stories about even their favorite car brands.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I gave my bil a lot of grief over the number of repairs on his 850 that he bought new, he used to try and hide that it was in the shop so many times. He never could keep the brake rotors from warping/pad deposits. It rode terrible. My ciera had a better ride.
Volvo tends to value cornering over ride quality, and an Oldsmobile typically values ride quality over cornering. That isn't a fair comparison between the 2.
As for the other problem with Volvo cars is that they were equipped with complex electronic systems once they stopped making bricks.
Parts for Volvo models are a problem. Seems to me like most repair parts take longer to deliver, and they cost twice as much as ones on American and Japanese cars.
A huge number of Volvo engines use timing belts. It wouldn't surprise me if the ones on sale are due for a timing belt change. I never replaced a Volvo timing belt, so I don't know the time and expensive required for that job.
I gave my bil a lot of grief over the number of repairs on his 850 that he bought new, he used to try and hide that it was in the shop so many times. He never could keep the brake rotors from warping/pad deposits. It rode terrible. My ciera had a better ride.
Volvo tends to value cornering over ride quality, and an Oldsmobile typically values ride quality over cornering. That isn't a fair comparison between the 2.
As for the other problem with Volvo cars is that they were equipped with complex electronic systems once they stopped making bricks.
Parts for Volvo models are a problem. Seems to me like most repair parts take longer to deliver, and they cost twice as much as ones on American and Japanese cars.
A huge number of Volvo engines use timing belts. It wouldn't surprise me if the ones on sale are due for a timing belt change. I never replaced a Volvo timing belt, so I don't know the time and expensive required for that job.
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Volvo tends to value cornering over ride quality, and an Oldsmobile typically values ride quality over cornering. That isn't a fair comparison between the 2.
As for the other problem with Volvo cars is that they were equipped with complex electronic systems once they stopped making bricks.
Parts for Volvo models are a problem. Seems to me like most repair parts take longer to deliver, and they cost twice as much as ones on American and Japanese cars.
A huge number of Volvo engines use timing belts. It wouldn't surprise me if the ones on sale are due for a timing belt change. I never replaced a Volvo timing belt, so I don't know the time and expensive required for that job.
Again. More rumor and false info.
On ride quality, Volvos are known for having the best seats in the industry. I rented an Infinity QX60 on business a month ago. Good car but my XC60 is better on many counts including seats, interior, and ride.
All cars have complex electronics. In many ways that has made things easier and I would not go back to pre-electronic cars except on a hobby car.
A set of brake pads runs the same for my 02 S40 as for an Accord of the same year.
Again, most cars have timing belts. I've changed them on a 99 Civic, 96 Ranger, and my 02 S40. I would rank them as worst to easiest in that order. Not that big a deal all are good cars but I scratch my head about why people get bothered about timing belts.
Volvo tends to value cornering over ride quality, and an Oldsmobile typically values ride quality over cornering. That isn't a fair comparison between the 2.
As for the other problem with Volvo cars is that they were equipped with complex electronic systems once they stopped making bricks.
Parts for Volvo models are a problem. Seems to me like most repair parts take longer to deliver, and they cost twice as much as ones on American and Japanese cars.
A huge number of Volvo engines use timing belts. It wouldn't surprise me if the ones on sale are due for a timing belt change. I never replaced a Volvo timing belt, so I don't know the time and expensive required for that job.
Again. More rumor and false info.
On ride quality, Volvos are known for having the best seats in the industry. I rented an Infinity QX60 on business a month ago. Good car but my XC60 is better on many counts including seats, interior, and ride.
All cars have complex electronics. In many ways that has made things easier and I would not go back to pre-electronic cars except on a hobby car.
A set of brake pads runs the same for my 02 S40 as for an Accord of the same year.
Again, most cars have timing belts. I've changed them on a 99 Civic, 96 Ranger, and my 02 S40. I would rank them as worst to easiest in that order. Not that big a deal all are good cars but I scratch my head about why people get bothered about timing belts.
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