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#3386973 - 06/02/14 12:22 PM W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor
deanm11 Offline


Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 154
Loc: Northern NJ
I've got in the family original owner '99 Regal that is my daily driver. Several times through the years I'd get several of the dashboard lights come on at the same time- Traction off/ABS and I can't be definitive on which of 'Service vehicle soon' and 'Check engine' had come on. In each case, an easily read/pulled ECM code came back to a wheel sensor and I'd try to fix the wiring or just replace the hub/abs sensor assembly.

The light show has come on again. This iteration at least, the 'Service vehicle soon' light is on but the 'Check engine' is not. I'm pretty sure this is how it was in the past too. Problem is I have no codes. From what I've read I'm stuck trying to find someone who can read the BCM. But this behavior and info conflicts with that I was able to read standard ECM codes that related to the wheel sensor in the past. I currently have tried to read codes with a cheap hand-held and also an inexpensive laptop/software based unit and each reveal no codes.

Any suggestions on how to proceed ? I'm looking for inexpensive way to diagnose and then I will do the repair. From some of the online topics that seem to be related to non-ECM code ABS problems, a harness fault is sometimes indicated. I'm not sure how the ECM or BCM would distinguish that from a bad wheel sensor.


Edited by deanm11 (06/02/14 12:28 PM)
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#3387050 - 06/02/14 02:18 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
cknight49090 Offline


Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 235
Loc: south haven mi
You need a ABS scanner or have it scanned with one.Its likely the hub or wiring.

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#3387056 - 06/02/14 02:18 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
ls1mike Offline


Registered: 06/14/08
Posts: 4276
Loc: In the Garage...
Sounds like the ABS module may be bad. A bad wheel sensor can be attributed to that sensor alone, hence the difference in codes.
Check the harness to the ABS module.
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00 Trans Am 5.7 LS1
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#3387081 - 06/02/14 02:39 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 29704
Loc: ME
Could be a rear wheel sensor. It doesn't need its speed info for emissions reasons for whatever reason, hence the different lights.

There's a rednecky way of checking for bad speed sensors. Believe it's to clear the ABS code (battery disco?) then block the car, put it in drive, then spin a rear tire. If its sensor is good, it will throw a code.

DO NOT DO THIS ON FRONT as the traction control will grab the loose tire and apply power to the grounded one, pulling the car off the jack.

The GM style connectors at the ABS sensors are notoriously terrible for fatiguing right at the connector. I'd hit the junkyard and grab a bunch of pigtails. They use these all over, not just for ABS, but it's better (not mandatory) to get the twisted pair ones from the ABS system.

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#3387101 - 06/02/14 03:01 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: eljefino]
deanm11 Offline


Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 154
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Could be a rear wheel sensor. It doesn't need its speed info for emissions reasons for whatever reason, hence the different lights.

There's a rednecky way of checking for bad speed sensors. Believe it's to clear the ABS code (battery disco?) then block the car, put it in drive, then spin a rear tire. If its sensor is good, it will throw a code.

DO NOT DO THIS ON FRONT as the traction control will grab the loose tire and apply power to the grounded one, pulling the car off the jack.

The GM style connectors at the ABS sensors are notoriously terrible for fatiguing right at the connector. I'd hit the junkyard and grab a bunch of pigtails. They use these all over, not just for ABS, but it's better (not mandatory) to get the twisted pair ones from the ABS system.


Thanks for the information all.

I might be a redneck... Actually not, I'm from Jersey. But I like the trick and will try it. I will just put the car on four jack stands and do it.

Dean
_________________________
2012 Subie Impr 2.0 77k Edge 0w20 7.5k
2016 Chall Scat Pack 6.4
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2006 Buick Lucerne 3.8 80k 5w30 syn 7.5k

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#3387258 - 06/02/14 07:16 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 14343
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
You can use an Ohm meter on the hub, if its failed it will usually read zero or way higher than the spec 900-1400 Ohms.
If you have the spec Ohms at the wheels check it at the box, if not the same at the box you have something in the wiring or connector.
key off engine off for this.
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#3387482 - 06/02/14 11:16 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
Ram01 Offline


Registered: 10/13/10
Posts: 916
Loc: New York Queens
GM is a piece of Sh---I--$&--t for real honda all the way

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#3391500 - 06/07/14 02:42 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
deanm11 Offline


Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 154
Loc: Northern NJ

Both rear ABS sensors (at the short harness connector) test with proper resistance. Unplugging the battery (~20min anyway) did not reset the Service Vehicle Soon/ABS/Traction lights. Maybe longer would. Would be useful as the spin a rear wheel test would verify the wiring back the ECM/BCM as good. Otherwise, would I be checking the proper pins resistance at the ECM connector or where? If it is a 'BCM' that handles this where is that computer and connector?
_________________________
2012 Subie Impr 2.0 77k Edge 0w20 7.5k
2016 Chall Scat Pack 6.4
2002 Tahoe 5.3 150k 5w30 syn 7.5k
2006 Buick Lucerne 3.8 80k 5w30 syn 7.5k

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#3391540 - 06/07/14 03:43 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 29704
Loc: ME
My innova 3160 reads ABS codes for "most US makes" and it worked for me on an 04 cavalier. Gave me several codes... "Judder" being one of them, but most pointed to one wheel and sho' nuf, fixing its pigtail fixed it up.

You could probably buy an innova 3160 on ebay then sell it on ebay when you're done, for a net loss of a few bucks for fees and shipping.



These connectors are flawed-- BIL's malibu ignition module uses one for power and it fatigued right at its output bend. I'd just "hail mary" it and splice a couple in the rear if you can't diagnose it any better.

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#3392560 - 06/08/14 09:19 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
deanm11 Offline


Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 154
Loc: Northern NJ
Thank you. I ordered a couple connector pairs with wire pigtails. Will try those first.
_________________________
2012 Subie Impr 2.0 77k Edge 0w20 7.5k
2016 Chall Scat Pack 6.4
2002 Tahoe 5.3 150k 5w30 syn 7.5k
2006 Buick Lucerne 3.8 80k 5w30 syn 7.5k

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#3422400 - 07/12/14 06:44 AM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
deanm11 Offline


Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 154
Loc: Northern NJ
I checked both sides pigtails- cut the wires after the complete connector and the resistance from the wheel sensor was still reading correctly. So it is probably in the wiring farther up or in the ABS control unit. Probably the wiring. I had a wire to the ECM for the cooling fans go bad and fixed it with running a new wire to the ECM. But I suppose these wires are going to a 'BCM' computer instead? Where is this on my car?

Separaately, anyone know if they will pass me at NJ inspection station with the ABS and related lights (I think one is service vehicle soon) on (no check engine lite, no ECM codes, all tests pass) I've searched around on this question, studied the NJ official website and it doesn't give an explicit answer.
_________________________
2012 Subie Impr 2.0 77k Edge 0w20 7.5k
2016 Chall Scat Pack 6.4
2002 Tahoe 5.3 150k 5w30 syn 7.5k
2006 Buick Lucerne 3.8 80k 5w30 syn 7.5k

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#3422558 - 07/12/14 10:40 AM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
ecotourist Offline


Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 598
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Recently had a 3 three dashlight show on my 2000 BMW (traction control, ABS, and brakes). The local non dealer repair shop wanted $2400 to replace the ABS module and ABS pump.

After a bit of internet searching I found out that the "trifecta" is a well known problem and all you need is to rebuild the ABS module. Took the ABS module out (it couldn't have been easier), had it rebuilt for $300 (at an internet searchable site) and all the lights immediately went out, have stayed out and as far as I can tell everything works as it should. And I have a 5 year warranty.

I was unable to read the BMW specific codes, though the repair place did. A borrowed generic code reader said there were no problems - though I expect that was limited to the powertrain.

This may or may not be the same problem but I thought you'd find this helpful.
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#3422910 - 07/12/14 06:30 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: ecotourist]
deanm11 Offline


Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 154
Loc: Northern NJ

Thank you. For my car, there's actually a brand new OEM one on ebay for $170 and some salvaged ones for $50ish.



Originally Posted By: ecotourist
Recently had a 3 three dashlight show on my 2000 BMW (traction control, ABS, and brakes). The local non dealer repair shop wanted $2400 to replace the ABS module and ABS pump.

After a bit of internet searching I found out that the "trifecta" is a well known problem and all you need is to rebuild the ABS module. Took the ABS module out (it couldn't have been easier), had it rebuilt for $300 (at an internet searchable site) and all the lights immediately went out, have stayed out and as far as I can tell everything works as it should. And I have a 5 year warranty.

I was unable to read the BMW specific codes, though the repair place did. A borrowed generic code reader said there were no problems - though I expect that was limited to the powertrain.

This may or may not be the same problem but I thought you'd find this helpful.
_________________________
2012 Subie Impr 2.0 77k Edge 0w20 7.5k
2016 Chall Scat Pack 6.4
2002 Tahoe 5.3 150k 5w30 syn 7.5k
2006 Buick Lucerne 3.8 80k 5w30 syn 7.5k

Top
#3422971 - 07/12/14 07:37 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 8250
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: deanm11

Thank you. For my car, there's actually a brand new OEM one on ebay for $170 and some salvaged ones for $50ish.

I'd be willing to buy the OEM one, but not the used one. I have dealt with numerous cars with ABS system failures and it seems directly connected to the age of the car. In short, a used ABS module too much risk for too little reward.

Now if you had an ABS failure because something other than brake fluid was introduced into the system and caused premature death, a used OEM might be good, but given the price of those 2 items, I would still get the new unit.
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#3423048 - 07/12/14 09:08 PM Re: W-body 1999 Regal ABS/Traction Control/ABS sensor [Re: deanm11]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 29704
Loc: ME
Originally Posted By: deanm11


Separaately, anyone know if they will pass me at NJ inspection station with the ABS and related lights (I think one is service vehicle soon) on (no check engine lite, no ECM codes, all tests pass) I've searched around on this question, studied the NJ official website and it doesn't give an explicit answer.


Supposedly NJ is now emissions only and no safety test, so I bet you'd pass.

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