Pennzoil Ultra Vs Amsoil XL
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the new PU might be comparable, though the new PU has better cold flow properties and might have higher TBN but, higher NOACK.
If your talking about old PU, then I think the old PU was better then Amsoil Signature series other then TBN. Though I have personally not seen many UOA on amsoil to the 25k OCI for that extra TBN to matter much. Forget the cost difference in Amsoil motor oil, PU is cheaper...at walmart
Now Amsoil ATF? I love, even in the toughest application where no other ATF improved shift quality, Amsoil ATF definitely worked like a charm, and I love the fact that I could go longer intervals on it as well.
If your talking about old PU, then I think the old PU was better then Amsoil Signature series other then TBN. Though I have personally not seen many UOA on amsoil to the 25k OCI for that extra TBN to matter much. Forget the cost difference in Amsoil motor oil, PU is cheaper...at walmart
Now Amsoil ATF? I love, even in the toughest application where no other ATF improved shift quality, Amsoil ATF definitely worked like a charm, and I love the fact that I could go longer intervals on it as well.
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If your talking about old PU, then I think the old PU was better
Pennzoil's cleaning ability claims have not changed from old PU to new PU. I don't know how you can say that the old PU was better in that respect.
The fact is, unless we can do a complete engine teardown after several hundreds of thousands of miles ran on each oil, we really are just speculating.
If your talking about old PU, then I think the old PU was better
Pennzoil's cleaning ability claims have not changed from old PU to new PU. I don't know how you can say that the old PU was better in that respect.
The fact is, unless we can do a complete engine teardown after several hundreds of thousands of miles ran on each oil, we really are just speculating.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
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If your talking about old PU, then I think the old PU was better
Pennzoil's cleaning ability claims have not changed from old PU to new PU. I don't know how you can say that the old PU was better in that respect.
The fact is, unless we can do a complete engine teardown after several hundreds of thousands of miles ran on each oil, we really are just speculating.
Sorry I went off topic and wasn't talking about cleaning abilities because by reading TDS or pqia, I personally can't tell what additive "cleans" better, other then the claims made on the bottles.
Quote:
If your talking about old PU, then I think the old PU was better
Pennzoil's cleaning ability claims have not changed from old PU to new PU. I don't know how you can say that the old PU was better in that respect.
The fact is, unless we can do a complete engine teardown after several hundreds of thousands of miles ran on each oil, we really are just speculating.
Sorry I went off topic and wasn't talking about cleaning abilities because by reading TDS or pqia, I personally can't tell what additive "cleans" better, other then the claims made on the bottles.
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hard to say what natural gas based oil do ,but it is a grade 3,but it could be better then a grade 4 who knows.extensive test might be required to have the whats what!
No it's not. It really has little to do with the starting reactants and everything to do with the final product. Whether it is PAO made from ethylene (or whatever they use to make it these days), or this product made from gas, the properties of the end product are what matter. Likewise it is the same for the hydrocracked products which everyone seems to be so critical of. Sure, there are carryover products (and there are usually less in a synthesis product) but those can be measured and controlled.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
hard to say what natural gas based oil do ,but it is a grade 3,but it could be better then a grade 4 who knows.extensive test might be required to have the whats what!
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
hard to say what natural gas based oil do ,but it is a grade 3,but it could be better then a grade 4 who knows.extensive test might be required to have the whats what!
Originally Posted By: kschachn
No it's not. It really has little to do with the starting reactants and everything to do with the final product. Whether it is PAO made from ethylene (or whatever they use to make it these days), or this product made from gas, the properties of the end product are what matter. Likewise it is the same for the hydrocracked products which everyone seems to be so critical of. Sure, there are carryover products (and there are usually less in a synthesis product) but those can be measured and controlled.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
hard to say what natural gas based oil do ,but it is a grade 3,but it could be better then a grade 4 who knows.extensive test might be required to have the whats what!
its probably what group 5 base oil maker said in the past ,as we know group 4 is still the one recommended by some of the best oil maker.so sadly till the oil made out of natural gas has shown off and proven its mettle for now it is just marketing hype!
No it's not. It really has little to do with the starting reactants and everything to do with the final product. Whether it is PAO made from ethylene (or whatever they use to make it these days), or this product made from gas, the properties of the end product are what matter. Likewise it is the same for the hydrocracked products which everyone seems to be so critical of. Sure, there are carryover products (and there are usually less in a synthesis product) but those can be measured and controlled.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
hard to say what natural gas based oil do ,but it is a grade 3,but it could be better then a grade 4 who knows.extensive test might be required to have the whats what!
its probably what group 5 base oil maker said in the past ,as we know group 4 is still the one recommended by some of the best oil maker.so sadly till the oil made out of natural gas has shown off and proven its mettle for now it is just marketing hype!
Amsoil's summary of GTL:
GTL Technology
Pennzoil’s “motor oil reimagined” marketing campaign is based on gas-to-liquid (GTL) base oil technology. Consumers should be aware that GTL technology is simply a process that converts natural gas, obtained by Pennzoil from Qatar, into Group III base oil. Because motor oils are formulated with GTL base oils does not mean they outperform other synthetic formulated oils. There is no magic base oil that elevates one motor oil over all others. It’s the precise combination of quality base oils and additives that defines motor oil performance.
GTL Technology
Pennzoil’s “motor oil reimagined” marketing campaign is based on gas-to-liquid (GTL) base oil technology. Consumers should be aware that GTL technology is simply a process that converts natural gas, obtained by Pennzoil from Qatar, into Group III base oil. Because motor oils are formulated with GTL base oils does not mean they outperform other synthetic formulated oils. There is no magic base oil that elevates one motor oil over all others. It’s the precise combination of quality base oils and additives that defines motor oil performance.
It is mostly marketing hype. This is a product made from gas, but I could make the same product from the tree in my front yard given enough time and effort. The fact that it is made from gas is mostly irrelevant. Natural gas is cheap right now, cheaper than crude oil so it might be a less expensive syntheses than hydrocracking (which was cheaper than making PAO based synthetics).
But the group type of the output is totally dependent on what they are aiming for. They could make PAO, they could make esters, they could make most any product from gas. Just keep combining and cracking the H and C till you get there. Don't get stuck on what the starting products are.
I once made 1,3-propanediol from an arcane method, trying to avoid the carryover products from using acrolein. There are lots of ways to get to an end product in chemical synthesis.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
its probably what group 5 base oil maker said in the past ,as we know group 4 is still the one recommended by some of the best oil maker.so sadly till the oil made out of natural gas has shown off and proven its mettle for now it is just marketing hype!
But the group type of the output is totally dependent on what they are aiming for. They could make PAO, they could make esters, they could make most any product from gas. Just keep combining and cracking the H and C till you get there. Don't get stuck on what the starting products are.
I once made 1,3-propanediol from an arcane method, trying to avoid the carryover products from using acrolein. There are lots of ways to get to an end product in chemical synthesis.
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
its probably what group 5 base oil maker said in the past ,as we know group 4 is still the one recommended by some of the best oil maker.so sadly till the oil made out of natural gas has shown off and proven its mettle for now it is just marketing hype!
While on the topic of oil bases and additives being blended in specific ways for the best outcome.. I have quit basing what oil I like on the additives in it.
Unless I need higher than average zinc and phosphorous for a flat tappet cam engine, UOA's almost appear to show that "strong additive packs" as far as we can see from a UOA do not determine how it will perform whatsoever.
Unless I need higher than average zinc and phosphorous for a flat tappet cam engine, UOA's almost appear to show that "strong additive packs" as far as we can see from a UOA do not determine how it will perform whatsoever.
The truth is--->If both were used in 2 of the same autos and {Properly} maintained with the same driving style.
Both engines will easily reach 200K miles {Possibly} 400K. It happens every day in the real world.
Next door neighbor has 1988 GMC 1/2 ton pickup with a 350 cu in.
Nothing but PYB since new. Truck still looks like New!
The 350 has 365K miles on her. Only general maintenance has been done since new.
Like I said since new nothing but PYB 5W-30. Last month he called me over. He had the Valve Covers off. He was bored!
Top of the heads were virtually spotless. Very little varnish. NO Sludge! 3K mile OCI were used until 2001 then He started going to 5K OCI. With right a 1 qt make up between OCI.
Motor still is smooth as silk and all that 350 power is still there. He uses a simple Wix Filter!
Just use the oil ya want. Just-->
1. Keep your engine properly Maintained!!
2. Keep a Clean Air Filter!
3. Stay on top of your OCI!
4. Use a Top Name Brand Oil Filter!
5. Use a Name Brand Oil in the proper Viscosity!
You don't have to have a $50-$70 oil change every time to get 100K miles out of your engine.
Both engines will easily reach 200K miles {Possibly} 400K. It happens every day in the real world.
Next door neighbor has 1988 GMC 1/2 ton pickup with a 350 cu in.
Nothing but PYB since new. Truck still looks like New!
The 350 has 365K miles on her. Only general maintenance has been done since new.
Like I said since new nothing but PYB 5W-30. Last month he called me over. He had the Valve Covers off. He was bored!
Top of the heads were virtually spotless. Very little varnish. NO Sludge! 3K mile OCI were used until 2001 then He started going to 5K OCI. With right a 1 qt make up between OCI.
Motor still is smooth as silk and all that 350 power is still there. He uses a simple Wix Filter!
Just use the oil ya want. Just-->
1. Keep your engine properly Maintained!!
2. Keep a Clean Air Filter!
3. Stay on top of your OCI!
4. Use a Top Name Brand Oil Filter!
5. Use a Name Brand Oil in the proper Viscosity!
You don't have to have a $50-$70 oil change every time to get 100K miles out of your engine.
+1, but I think you might be using a little too much common sense and many will dismiss your example as being merely anecdotal.
Back in the days before we saw OTS oils with great add packs or even knew that synthetics existed, many of us had engines lead long, clean lives with no more than regular maintenance.
It wasn't the oil, it was just changing it on some reasonable basis.
Clean, long-wearing engines didn't begin with modern add packs or synthetic oils.
Back in the days before we saw OTS oils with great add packs or even knew that synthetics existed, many of us had engines lead long, clean lives with no more than regular maintenance.
It wasn't the oil, it was just changing it on some reasonable basis.
Clean, long-wearing engines didn't begin with modern add packs or synthetic oils.
I don't think that Amsoil is marketing hype either.
There are some nice UOAs of very long runs of SSO in various grades posted here.
OTOH, Amsoil's marketing system precludes really good pricing on their best oils.
I have some SSO 0W-20 in the stash.
I bought it cheap, of course, from someone who was afraid to run it in a 5W-20 application and who was in the process of preparing to move across the country.
I'll run it in either Accord or the Focus.
Not sure which.
There are some nice UOAs of very long runs of SSO in various grades posted here.
OTOH, Amsoil's marketing system precludes really good pricing on their best oils.
I have some SSO 0W-20 in the stash.
I bought it cheap, of course, from someone who was afraid to run it in a 5W-20 application and who was in the process of preparing to move across the country.
I'll run it in either Accord or the Focus.
Not sure which.
The hype is in promoting the starting materials. In an industrial environment, cost, energy requirements and ease of conversion (including number of process steps) are the driving points for feedstock selection.
It is the resulting oil's performance that matters. It's just like making a polymer - the finished polymer's specs are what matters, not (for the most part) the method of polymerization and the monomers used to produce it.
I never said Pennzoil wasn't reputable BTW.
It is the resulting oil's performance that matters. It's just like making a polymer - the finished polymer's specs are what matters, not (for the most part) the method of polymerization and the monomers used to produce it.
I never said Pennzoil wasn't reputable BTW.
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Go to Amsoil with $25 and see what you can buy.
For $22.75 you can buy a gallon of XL 5W-30.
Go to Amsoil with $25 and see what you can buy.
For $22.75 you can buy a gallon of XL 5W-30.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Go to Amsoil with $25 and see what you can buy.
For $22.75 you can buy a gallon of XL 5W-30.
Pablo! This is just not true. It is $33.20 plus shipping. Unless you pay $20 for preferred membership first, then it is $42.75 plus shipping with the membership cost. I like Amsoil, I pay for the preferred customer membership and have Amsoil Severe Gear in the diffs. I don't like shady sales tactics. Just like I tell my kids, it is a lie if you withhold information, just tell the full truth always.....
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Go to Amsoil with $25 and see what you can buy.
For $22.75 you can buy a gallon of XL 5W-30.
Pablo! This is just not true. It is $33.20 plus shipping. Unless you pay $20 for preferred membership first, then it is $42.75 plus shipping with the membership cost. I like Amsoil, I pay for the preferred customer membership and have Amsoil Severe Gear in the diffs. I don't like shady sales tactics. Just like I tell my kids, it is a lie if you withhold information, just tell the full truth always.....
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Go to Amsoil with $25 and see what you can buy.
For $22.75 you can buy a gallon of XL 5W-30.
Pablo! This is just not true. It is $33.20 plus shipping. Unless you pay $20 for preferred membership first, then it is $42.75 plus shipping with the membership cost. I like Amsoil, I pay for the preferred customer membership and have Amsoil Severe Gear in the diffs. I don't like shady sales tactics. Just like I tell my kids, it is a lie if you withhold information, just tell the full truth always.....
C'mon, what self respecting BITOGer only buys enough oil for one oil change at a time?!?!?? Make it 10 oil changes' worth and that $20 to join is very well spent indeed.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Go to Amsoil with $25 and see what you can buy.
For $22.75 you can buy a gallon of XL 5W-30.
Pablo! This is just not true. It is $33.20 plus shipping. Unless you pay $20 for preferred membership first, then it is $42.75 plus shipping with the membership cost. I like Amsoil, I pay for the preferred customer membership and have Amsoil Severe Gear in the diffs. I don't like shady sales tactics. Just like I tell my kids, it is a lie if you withhold information, just tell the full truth always.....
C'mon, what self respecting BITOGer only buys enough oil for one oil change at a time?!?!?? Make it 10 oil changes' worth and that $20 to join is very well spent indeed.
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Here in Canada it make sense for us to buy Amsoil! The amsoil prices beats the synthetic prices we have to pay at stores here in Canada. Now this are for 1 liter bottles.
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