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#3387959 - 06/03/14 04:05 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: MileHigh18]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 28462
Loc: NY
Looks like a few of the fisherman are out...... trolling This one isn't biting right now though. Maybe a change of bait will help? LOL
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#3387961 - 06/03/14 04:08 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: 440Magnum]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3730
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

But why, please tell me why, would anyone put an octane-reducer in fuel on a routine basis??? Light oils of any sort SIGNIFICANTLY suppress octane. As discussed on another thread here very recently, distillates like kersone and diesel have octane ratings in the ~40 range, compared to 87 for unleaded gasoline. MMO petroleum distillate content is certainly similar, and in any concentration that could have a lubricating effect it WILL also reduce the octane rating of the fuel appreciably.


Because they heard grandpa's stories of how they used this without killing their engine?

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20020916X01610&ntsbno=NYC02LA181&akey=1



Edited by Trajan (06/03/14 04:15 PM)
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#3387966 - 06/03/14 04:19 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: antiqueshell]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Exactly, I have YET to see any testing from MMO with a certified independent lab test that indicates it does ANYTHING beneficial for a modern motor vehicle.
I challenge MMO to provide us with any SAE certified independent lab results that show any benefits...

You have yet to see any independent testing for ANY proprietary product. Manufacturers may do the testing but they keep the results to themselves. There may be independent tests of underlying ingredients (e.g. PEA) but for a variety of practical and legal reasons there are no tests of the retail product.

Have you ever used MMO as a fuel additive? What were the results?
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#3387971 - 06/03/14 04:26 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: Trav]
Tegger Offline


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 2285
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Trav
Frank (Demarpaint) has been using this stuff for years and AFAIK hasn't put a cat in anything yet.

I put a cat into a doghouse once. It didn't go well.
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#3387976 - 06/03/14 04:39 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: dave5358]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 8404
Loc: Upper Midwest
That's a problem, isn't it? I mean, name some other industry that is allowed to do that. I worked for a company that made (among other things) gas valves. There's no way we could have sold those valves without publishing specific and credible testing results directly demonstrating the valve's operating parameters.

The motor oil companies themselves (at least most of them) have to certify which standards the oil meet. Look at the melee that ensued during Katrina when Mobil had to drop the starburst and donut off their bottles.

Take any industry you want - drugs, food additives, even the water I drink from the tap. All require testing and validation. Why do you suppose the oil and fuel additives get a free pass? They are selling me something that they are telling me will perform a specific function. Why shouldn't they prove that it does what they say it will do?

Originally Posted By: dave5358
You have yet to see any independent testing for ANY proprietary product. Manufacturers may do the testing but they keep the results to themselves. There may be independent tests of underlying ingredients (e.g. PEA) but for a variety of practical and legal reasons there are no tests of the retail product.

Have you ever used MMO as a fuel additive? What were the results?
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#3387982 - 06/03/14 04:44 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: 440Magnum]
JJ717 Offline


Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 37
Loc: Central PA
How does a 4 ounce dose in 10 gallons of gasoline "significantly reduce octane"? By my math, that's a 1/320 ratio, and my back of the envelope calculations for 10 gallons of 87 octane, with a 4 ounce dose of MMO (assuming 40 octane) gives a final octane rating of 86.859 for the resulting 10.03 gallons of fuel.

Anyone have octane ratings for Techron, TC-W3, etc?

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#3387988 - 06/03/14 04:48 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: JJ717]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 9783
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: JJ717
How does a 4 ounce dose in 10 gallons of gasoline "significantly reduce octane"? By my math, that's a 1/320 ratio, and my back of the envelope calculations for 10 gallons of 87 octane, with a 4 ounce dose of MMO (assuming 40 octane) gives a final octane rating of 86.859 for the resulting 10.03 gallons of fuel.

Anyone have octane ratings for Techron, TC-W3, etc?


Hehehe.
Yep its so significant lets hope the engines knock sensors are working properly.
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#3387991 - 06/03/14 04:51 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: MileHigh18]
RobertISaar Offline


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 144
Loc: Camden, MI, USA
i seem to remember the TC-W3 octane rating also being in the 40 range. at the 640:1 most people run it at, the impact on octane is probably half of that of a bad batch of fuel.

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#3388007 - 06/03/14 05:23 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: JJ717]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: JJ717
How does a 4 ounce dose in 10 gallons of gasoline "significantly reduce octane"? By my math, that's a 1/320 ratio, and my back of the envelope calculations for 10 gallons of 87 octane, with a 4 ounce dose of MMO (assuming 40 octane) gives a final octane rating of 86.859 for the resulting 10.03 gallons of fuel. <snip>

It doesn't. Just another straw man.

MMO may be good or bad or useful or not... but reduced octane rating has nothing to do with the final verdict.
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#3388011 - 06/03/14 05:27 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: Tegger]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 16522
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Trav
Frank (Demarpaint) has been using this stuff for years and AFAIK hasn't put a cat in anything yet.

I put a cat into a doghouse once. It didn't go well.

LOL Good one! cheers
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#3388057 - 06/03/14 06:35 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: kschachn]
Trajan Offline


Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3730
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: kschachn
That's a problem, isn't it? I mean, name some other industry that is allowed to do that. I worked for a company that made (among other things) gas valves. There's no way we could have sold those valves without publishing specific and credible testing results directly demonstrating the valve's operating parameters.

The motor oil companies themselves (at least most of them) have to certify which standards the oil meet. Look at the melee that ensued during Katrina when Mobil had to drop the starburst and donut off their bottles.

Take any industry you want - drugs, food additives, even the water I drink from the tap. All require testing and validation. Why do you suppose the oil and fuel additives get a free pass? They are selling me something that they are telling me will perform a specific function. Why shouldn't they prove that it does what they say it will do?


Even gas from some unbranded gas and puke has to meet Federal minimum standards.





Edited by Trajan (06/03/14 06:37 PM)
_________________________

Lack of harm is not proof of benefit.

There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates





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#3388072 - 06/03/14 06:46 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: Trajan]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: kschachn
That's a problem, isn't it? I mean, name some other industry that is allowed to do that. I worked for a company that made (among other things) gas valves. There's no way we could have sold those valves without publishing specific and credible testing results directly demonstrating the valve's operating parameters.

The motor oil companies themselves (at least most of them) have to certify which standards the oil meet. Look at the melee that ensued during Katrina when Mobil had to drop the starburst and donut off their bottles.

Take any industry you want - drugs, food additives, even the water I drink from the tap. All require testing and validation. Why do you suppose the oil and fuel additives get a free pass? They are selling me something that they are telling me will perform a specific function. Why shouldn't they prove that it does what they say it will do?


Even gas from some unbranded gas and puke has to meet Federal minimum standards.

Federal minimum standards for what? Who inspects? Who enforces?

Hereabouts, about the only requirement is that if you pump 1 gallon, you will get at least 1 quart. The county auditor is supposed to check the pumps for accurate delivery and then puts a sticker on the pump (vote for Hoolihan). There may be industry standards but they are self-enforced - a tank farm operator doesn't want to get stuck with a shipment of off-spec product.

But "Federal minimum standards"? You might want to check before making that claim.
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2008 Corolla LE

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#3388273 - 06/03/14 10:05 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: MileHigh18]
boxcartommie22 Offline


Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 3072
Loc: moutain country
+2 440magnum


Edited by boxcartommie22 (06/03/14 10:06 PM)
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#3388860 - 06/04/14 04:43 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: RobertISaar]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 8675
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: RobertISaar
i seem to remember the TC-W3 octane rating also being in the 40 range. at the 640:1 most people run it at, the impact on octane is probably half of that of a bad batch of fuel.


I agree.... but at that type of concentration of MMO, do you really believe its doing ANYTHING? I mean literally ANYTHING at all, whether beneficial or not?

That's my point. In such a low concentration, its probably not doing anything. At least cleaners with PEA have a chemical mechanism that arguably works in such low concentrations.

As for the octane reduction: People put PCV catch-cans on cars to reduce the oil contamination and octane reduction from PCV system mist (as well as keep the intake cleaner). Depending on the car, that's on the order of a couple tablespoons per thousand miles. If that low dosing can cause pinging, seems like a similar dosing of the distillates in MMO could cause pinging.

I'm not bashing MMO. Read back, I've used it. Just not as a routine fuel additive.
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#3388871 - 06/04/14 04:53 PM Re: Scotty Kilmer: Don't use MMO! [Re: Tegger]
kmrcstintn Offline


Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 537
Loc: Palmyra, PA
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Trav
Frank (Demarpaint) has been using this stuff for years and AFAIK hasn't put a cat in anything yet.


I put a cat into a doghouse once. It didn't go well.


crackmeup
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