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#3383686 - 05/29/14 04:24 AM Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km
Mathson Offline


Registered: 12/06/12
Posts: 73
Loc: North Europe
Once again I read an article of 60 000km endurance test from a local automagazine in Finland. Car in question was a new Golf VII 1.4 TSI ACT. After 60 000km they strip down the engine and found out that turbocharger was worn out. They reckon it will last 100 000km with luck. In the article they came to a conclusion that longlife OCIs just dont protect the engine with 504/507 oils. There were significant signs of oil film failing under extreme heat and pressure. A vehicle was serviced and maintained according to manufacturer's guidelines during the test.

This just confirms my opinion about VW Group. They just don't make good products any more.

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#3383688 - 05/29/14 04:34 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Mathson]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 3582
Loc: Manchester, England
LongLife OCI's are only to appeal to people who manage fleets of, say, company cars or hire cars.

Regular changes with good oil, and being considerate enough to let the engine reach temperature before romping on it would at a bare minimum double the life-expectancy.

One other thing that people don't seem to do these days? Let the turbo cool down before you switch the engine off!! No better way to kill a turbo in double quick time than to switch the engine off while it's still hot and let the oil in the turbo's bearings turn to coal.

Your opinion of VW group products is a mistake. They still make good products, it's just unfortunate that a lot of people are too stupid to know how to maintain their vehicles.
_________________________
1982 VW Scirocco
1457cc
98 bhp
78000 miles
Redline fluids
Mann/Mahle filters

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#3383690 - 05/29/14 04:43 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Olas]
Mathson Offline


Registered: 12/06/12
Posts: 73
Loc: North Europe
Couldn't agree with you more. But then again why turbo cool down is not mentioned in a user's handbook if engine clearly benefits from it. Just a manufacturer's way of [censored] in customer's morning serial.

When it comes to my opinion about VW, I have had a bad experience in a form of timing chain failure and DSG failure in my 2009 Golf. Seems that technology goes backwards.

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#3383697 - 05/29/14 05:23 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Mathson]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 3582
Loc: Manchester, England
Maybe the owners manual doesn't mention 'cool-down' because it's obvious? I knew about the need to let a turbo cool down before switching the engine off before I even started my driving lessons..some things are just obvious (IMO!) like checking tyre pressures and fluid levels and bulbs each week. Common sense.

How many miles were on your DSG when the chain failed? Whenb you stripped/inspected/repaired it did you see excessive wear in the guides? chipped teeth on the pulleys?? I've always seen chains stretch and cause idling problems before they snap - were you ignoring a nooise hoping it'd go away before the chain failed?
_________________________
1982 VW Scirocco
1457cc
98 bhp
78000 miles
Redline fluids
Mann/Mahle filters

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#3383704 - 05/29/14 06:04 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Olas]
Mathson Offline


Registered: 12/06/12
Posts: 73
Loc: North Europe
DSG failed at 85 000km, timing chain at 118 000km. You can make conversion to miles. Only indication of chain stretch was a rattling noise of 5 sec at start up. When it first happened I called to a dealer but chain snapped before the service time. I even record it on a film before and after repair. From the film one cannot determine which is which. The sound is identical. I didnt see the parts it was repaired at the dealers. Only at my work place four people with TSI suffered from a same issue.

But now we know that there was a design flaw cause new TSIs are belt driven.

My opinion is that manufacturer cannot make assumptions that a customer knows how to
properly use and maintain their product if it is not mentioned in a handbook. Only reason it is not mentioned is because manufacture's official opinion is that TSI engine doesn't need a cool down period under normal operating conditions.

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#3383707 - 05/29/14 06:17 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Olas]
shDK Offline


Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 720
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Olas
LongLife OCI's are only to appeal to people who manage fleets of, say, company cars or hire cars.

Regular changes with good oil, and being considerate enough to let the engine reach temperature before romping on it would at a bare minimum double the life-expectancy.

One other thing that people don't seem to do these days? Let the turbo cool down before you switch the engine off!! No better way to kill a turbo in double quick time than to switch the engine off while it's still hot and let the oil in the turbo's bearings turn to coal.

Your opinion of VW group products is a mistake. They still make good products, it's just unfortunate that a lot of people are too stupid to know how to maintain their vehicles.


i have to disagree with you there. :-)

i believe that the quality and durability of Volkswagen, cars dropped dramatically. when they stopped making the golf 4 and passat 3BG.

and a costumer must be able to follow the manufacturers serviceplan, without any problems with durability . if the serviceplan is not good enough. it is the manufacturer that has failed, not the costumer.



Edited by shDK (05/29/14 06:18 AM)

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#3383709 - 05/29/14 06:18 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Mathson]
davglt Offline


Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 37
Loc: kansas
My 2002 Audi A4 1.8T has 282,000 miles, no engine parts have been replaced, turbo is just fine, 7500 mile oil changes with 502 oils, Mobil 1, GC 0-30 and now PU 5-40 Euro. Less then 1/2 quart between changes, Audi/VW still makes good products if you take care of them. original CV joints, etc.
_________________________
2017 Acura MDX Hybrid
2014 Audi A6 TDI Prestige
2003 Honda Accord V6
2002 Audi A4
1976 Dodge Van 360

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#3383717 - 05/29/14 06:59 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: shDK]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 39870
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: shDK
and a costumer must be able to follow the manufacturers serviceplan, without any problems with durability . if the serviceplan is not good enough. it is the manufacturer that has failed, not the costumer.



Not necessarily. The manufacturer has to make products that live past the warranty perior and then perhaps some longer interval wthout causing excessive costs to the manufaturer. After that it is anybody's guess.

It is well understood that turbomachinery life is dictated by time AT temperature. Perhaps the vehicle was way underpowered and spent too much time at full boost, causing issues. I dont know and Im not sure anyone can say. But that would be my first gut feel, regardless of SAPS, which we know full well can be replaced with other more benign things in most applications.

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#3383754 - 05/29/14 08:14 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Mathson]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 5071
Loc: KC
Originally Posted By: Mathson
Once again I read an article of 60 000km endurance test from a local automagazine in Finland. Car in question was a new Golf VII 1.4 TSI ACT. After 60 000km they strip down the engine and found out that turbocharger was worn out. They reckon it will last 100 000km with luck. In the article they came to a conclusion that longlife OCIs just dont protect the engine with 504/507 oils. There were significant signs of oil film failing under extreme heat and pressure. A vehicle was serviced and maintained according to manufacturer's guidelines during the test.

This just confirms my opinion about VW Group. They just don't make good products any more.


Link?
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX, Formula Shell 5W30, Fram TG, 150k+
2015 Chrysler T&C, 55k+, Mag1 0W20, Fram OF

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#3383797 - 05/29/14 09:17 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Mathson]
double vanos Offline


Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 1553
Loc: Bisbee, Arizona
I wanted a GTI but VWs quality ratings via several sources told me not to do it. So I went with another Mazdaspeed 3. Had a terrific time with my first one (08) and this second one is doing well (13) also.

I figure one reason is I don't mod my cars, just drive them stock and maintain them old school (ie no extended drains etc).
_________________________
Sabine Schmitz is the Queen of the 'Ring; Svetlana Kapanina is the Queen of the SKIES...

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#3383808 - 05/29/14 09:44 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Olas]
geeman789 Offline


Registered: 04/13/14
Posts: 668
Loc: Western Canada
Originally Posted By: Olas
Maybe the owners manual doesn't mention 'cool-down' because it's obvious? I knew about the need to let a turbo cool down before switching the engine off before I even started my driving lessons..some things are just obvious (IMO!) like checking tyre pressures and fluid levels and bulbs each week. Common sense...


Seriously...? The average driver doesn't know if their car is FWD / RWD... and if the car has a turbo, ask them what it actually is... most have no idea.
_________________________
2011 SUBARU Impreza 5 spd manual / 2007 HONDA Odyssey


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#3383816 - 05/29/14 09:52 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Mathson]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 4297
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Mathson
DSG failed at 85 000km, timing chain at 118 000km. You can make conversion to miles. Only indication of chain stretch was a rattling noise of 5 sec at start up. When it first happened I called to a dealer but chain snapped before the service time. I even record it on a film before and after repair. From the film one cannot determine which is which. The sound is identical. I didnt see the parts it was repaired at the dealers. Only at my work place four people with TSI suffered from a same issue.

But now we know that there was a design flaw cause new TSIs are belt driven.

My opinion is that manufacturer cannot make assumptions that a customer knows how to
properly use and maintain their product if it is not mentioned in a handbook. Only reason it is not mentioned is because manufacture's official opinion is that TSI engine doesn't need a cool down period under normal operating conditions.

110,000km on CC 2.0T, driven very hard, all kind of oils used (5W40, 0W30, 0W40, 5W30) and still going strong not using a drop of oil, never change any part except pads/rotors.
_________________________
13' BMW X5 35d (Valvoline 5W40MST+OEM filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+OEM filter)

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#3383836 - 05/29/14 10:06 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: badtlc]
Mathson Offline


Registered: 12/06/12
Posts: 73
Loc: North Europe
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: Mathson
Once again I read an article of 60 000km endurance test from a local automagazine in Finland. Car in question was a new Golf VII 1.4 TSI ACT. After 60 000km they strip down the engine and found out that turbocharger was worn out. They reckon it will last 100 000km with luck. In the article they came to a conclusion that longlife OCIs just dont protect the engine with 504/507 oils. There were significant signs of oil film failing under extreme heat and pressure. A vehicle was serviced and maintained according to manufacturer's guidelines during the test.

This just confirms my opinion about VW Group. They just don't make good products any more.


Link?


The article was in a printed media. But here is the link to their web site. It's in finnish.
http://tekniikanmaailma.fi/arkisto/lehtiarkisto?HaeNumero2=true&year=0&number=x

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#3383855 - 05/29/14 10:40 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: Olas]
rjundi Offline


Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 7256
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Olas


One other thing that people don't seem to do these days? Let the turbo cool down before you switch the engine off!! No better way to kill a turbo in double quick time than to switch the engine off while it's still hot and let the oil in the turbo's bearings turn to coal.



Modern turbo design includes a siphon of coolant and sometimes oil which allows flow to continue a bit a draw heat away.

My wife has 180,000 miles on a Subaru Legacy Turbo(VF40) that uses 4000 mile OCI. She NEVER has let it idle before shut off. OEM turbo was inspected recently and has no free play and in excellent condition as engine was out for a (burned) valve job.
_________________________
---

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#3383887 - 05/29/14 11:29 AM Re: Golf VII TSI / Turbo worn out at 60 000km [Re: rjundi]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 6338
Loc: S California
A Ford engineer said their new turbo engines are built for reliability knowing the average owner/driver has no idea what's going on under the hood. He said running the engine to cool the turbo when turning the engine off is not needed on these new Ford turbo engines. He told me that during customer introductions and surveys less than half the people had any idea of what "checking the oil level" meant. Others knew the concept of changing the oil but did not understand what the oil was supposed to be changed to. They had no idea that the oil was replaced with clean oil on some kind of schedule even with an oil life monitor on the dash. Most people would not find BITOG of any interest.

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