Fuel thieves target gas stations

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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: jrustles
lol. hundreds of thousands of humans who have had their lives taken for monopolistic commercial ventures of both banks and petroleum conglomerateas; the most profitable entities in human history-- are not victims worth thinking about. The pricing conspiracy that is in no way related to cost of production-at all- is inconsequentaial to us all. But Exxon mobil losing out on an infinitesimally small sum of PROFIT is the victim.


Ah... Now we're getting somewhere. It's okay to steal from them because you don't like them. Got it.


Yup, the moment one starts to quantify their immoral choices as moral, their morality is gone. It's a slippery slope because the "criteria" can change at any time. This month it could be OK to steal from a big corporation and bad from an individual and next month, it could be OK to steal from an individual as long as he/she is rich. Next, it will be OK to steal from anybody because they're better off than you.
 
Originally Posted By: accent2012
Originally Posted By: IndyIan

If you think gas is overpriced, don't buy any.


That's like saying if food is too expensive, don't eat anything...

People are gonna steal. Some do it out desperation.


But it's still theft!!!!!

John
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Yup, the moment one starts to quantify their immoral choices as moral, their morality is gone.


lmao let's talk about morality in such a context that specifically oil companies are the defendant.....


haha with all due respect, if my head ever gets that far up my digestive tract, shoot me
 
Originally Posted By: jrustles
haha with all due respect, if my head ever gets that far up my digestive tract, shoot me


I think it's already there!

Seriously, I think you're confusing "revenge" with "justice". I'm not here to say that "big oil" (however you define that) hasn't done anything wrong. I'm sure they have. Stealing from them doesn't avenge that wrong. Bringing them to court avenges that wrong. You may say that that's impossible and that it'll never work. You're probably right to some degree. Exxon and Shell and BP have paid millions or billions in fines and penalties for wrongdoing before, so it's not unprecedented. Have they paid for all of their wrongdoing? I guess your opinion is as good as mine.

But I'm not sure that committing a crime against someone else whom you believe has done wrong is ever the right thing to do. Two wrongs don't make a right. I think they've been teaching that in school for, what, centuries? Lowering yourself to their level is...well...lowering yourself to their level. I'm not sure I'd ever endeavor to do that.

Or at least ever admit to it on BITOG.
 
You do realize the oil companies have one of the LOWEST profit margins of all industries.

It's simply volume. When you sell hundreds of billions of dollars in fuel, if you make a few pennies per dollar invested, it adds up.

http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/datafile/margin.html

Net margins are less than 10%, compared to outfits like banks at 27%, alcoholic beverages 22.6%, Real Estate Investment Trusts 73%, Thrifts (Lending) 164%, and all sorts of 15%+ in investing, financial services, etc.

With those profits, pension funds and guys like me, saving for my retirement in my 401(k) and IRA make money for the future.

No profits, no jobs!

Finally, you do realize that just because it says Shell, BP, Mobil or any other brand on the C-store doesn't mean that the parent company owns the store.

Likely the C-store is owned by someone who has purchased a franchise from the name brand.


Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: Win


But somebody eats the loss.

After the production, motor fuel is not free, you're right. Meaning that up until the moment some third party takes possession, and assumes risk, then it remains a victimless crime.

Put another way, once the 98.771% profit margin has been made by the producer by selling it to a third party or a franchisee, then it's off limits IMO.


BUT if the fuel is sitting in a "oil company" owned tank, on their property, with a real time price set by them, then my assertion remains
smile.gif


I surely hope people that decide to do this type of thing do not target the indys like you, though
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: jrustles
lol. hundreds of thousands of humans who have had their lives taken for monopolistic commercial ventures of both banks and petroleum conglomerateas; the most profitable entities in human history-- are not victims worth thinking about. The pricing conspiracy that is in no way related to cost of production-at all- is inconsequentaial to us all. But Exxon mobil losing out on an infinitesimally small sum of PROFIT is the victim.


Ah... Now we're getting somewhere. It's okay to steal from them because you don't like them. Got it.


Interesting.


So the fact that this stolen fuel is coming from a retailer,and not a refinery means that it's not "big oil" taking a hit it's the business owner,and his insurance company that's paying for it.
And if insurance is covering it you know the retailer will get stuck with higher premiums so in essence it's the retailer bearing the brunt of the theft.

Stealing is stealing. No grey area. Trying to justify it in some way by reminding everyone how bad oil companies are and blah blah blah changes nothing.
Should the retailer leave the pumps unlocked and start shooting anyone he thinks might be robbing him now too.
 
* shakes head *

oil corporations "may" have done terrible things?
oil corporations reap the lowest margins around?
stealing is stealing no matter wht according to law and therefore morality
morality = law


ut uh, better not cross them or else there's [censored] to pay/transferring lost PROFITS to the end user


omg you guys are killing me!


I could type stories about gas attendants losing their lives to 'prevent' a fuel theft, because the company he worked for threatened to charge HIM for the losses, and being so desperate to not lose more than a days pay, lost his life by trying to stop a gas thief, but I'd rather not get trolled into enthusiastically expressing THE OBVIOUS MORAL ISSUES surrounding the avarice of a legal entity that is not human. But I'll be-- if I sit around and watch my peers make excuses for them- the same people who are shearing you all bald- not because of any cost to produce, but STRICTLY FOR PROFITABILITY.
 
Call me stupid if you will, but your logic just isn't obeying anything I believe in. If you take something that's not yours and you either don't pay for it or return services in-kind, you have technically "stole" it. Regardless of whom owns said product, it is stealing. Period.
 
I don't think anyone has said oil companies are the paragons of virtue.

What folks are saying is:

1. It's not a victimless crime. Even if you don't find the victim compelling, are you sure you understand who all the victims are? After all, once the fuel is sold to the retailer, the victim is likely a member of your community. But even if the store is owned by an "evil" corporation, what happens when they have costs? They pass them on to customers. So ultimately, it's guys like you and me who pays the costs of theft.

2. Just because some oil company brand name is on the store doesn't mean the oil company owns the store.

3. You don't fix moral decline by responding with more moral decline. Your approach is akin to saying your brother is addicted to crack, so let's steal from the crack dealers to get her the crack she need for her fix. Adding another crime doesn't solve the underlying problem. Likewise, if you think oil companies are evil, then stealing from them doesn't fix the problem, it only adds to the list of problems.
Originally Posted By: jrustles
* shakes head *

oil corporations "may" have done terrible things?
oil corporations reap the lowest margins around?
stealing is stealing no matter wht according to law and therefore morality
morality = law


ut uh, better not cross them or else there's [censored] to pay/transferring lost PROFITS to the end user


omg you guys are killing me!


I could type stories about gas attendants losing their lives to 'prevent' a fuel theft, because the company he worked for threatened to charge HIM for the losses, and being so desperate to not lose more than a days pay, lost his life by trying to stop a gas thief, but I'd rather not get trolled into enthusiastically expressing THE OBVIOUS MORAL ISSUES surrounding the avarice of a legal entity that is not human. But I'll be-- if I sit around and watch my peers make excuses for them- the same people who are shearing you all bald- not because of any cost to produce, but STRICTLY FOR PROFITABILITY.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: jrustles
haha with all due respect, if my head ever gets that far up my digestive tract, shoot me


I think it's already there!

Seriously, I think you're confusing "revenge" with "justice". I'm not here to say that "big oil" (however you define that) hasn't done anything wrong. I'm sure they have. Stealing from them doesn't avenge that wrong. Bringing them to court avenges that wrong. You may say that that's impossible and that it'll never work. You're probably right to some degree. Exxon and Shell and BP have paid millions or billions in fines and penalties for wrongdoing before, so it's not unprecedented. Have they paid for all of their wrongdoing? I guess your opinion is as good as mine.

But I'm not sure that committing a crime against someone else whom you believe has done wrong is ever the right thing to do. Two wrongs don't make a right. I think they've been teaching that in school for, what, centuries? Lowering yourself to their level is...well...lowering yourself to their level. I'm not sure I'd ever endeavor to do that.

Or at least ever admit to it on BITOG.


Plus haven't grocers and car dealers and phone companies and what-have-you "done something wrong" at some point? Why not steal from them also? Stupid.

50.gif


John
 
Let's take it all the way, if jrustles has ever kept the change when given too much at the register, we can take his stuff because he's done something bad.

If that's his standard, then I hope he's willing to live with the consequences of others holding him to that very standard
smile.gif



Originally Posted By: John_K
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: jrustles
haha with all due respect, if my head ever gets that far up my digestive tract, shoot me


I think it's already there!

Seriously, I think you're confusing "revenge" with "justice". I'm not here to say that "big oil" (however you define that) hasn't done anything wrong. I'm sure they have. Stealing from them doesn't avenge that wrong. Bringing them to court avenges that wrong. You may say that that's impossible and that it'll never work. You're probably right to some degree. Exxon and Shell and BP have paid millions or billions in fines and penalties for wrongdoing before, so it's not unprecedented. Have they paid for all of their wrongdoing? I guess your opinion is as good as mine.

But I'm not sure that committing a crime against someone else whom you believe has done wrong is ever the right thing to do. Two wrongs don't make a right. I think they've been teaching that in school for, what, centuries? Lowering yourself to their level is...well...lowering yourself to their level. I'm not sure I'd ever endeavor to do that.

Or at least ever admit to it on BITOG.


Plus haven't grocers and car dealers and phone companies and what-have-you "done something wrong" at some point? Why not steal from them also? Stupid.

50.gif


John
 
Some people here lack morals. Theft is theft, if you don't like the product someone is selling don't buy it.

They also don't understand how this works, the cost of the theft is passed right onto the consumer, so we all pay for it.

Many people live in cities and don't own cars so they don't buy gas, if you feel that strongly I suggest doing that. If not your a hypocrite.
 
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Originally Posted By: jrustles
But Exxon mobil losing out on an infinitesimally small sum of PROFIT is the victim.

Of course, there is case law to back that up. Like I said, try it. Let us know how it turns out. Or, rob a bank. Again, update us on how well it goes to claim there's no victim.

An entity, be it a person or a company, engaging in untoward behaviour in no way means they can never be victimized. That's rationalization. It's no better than saying I shouldn't get a speeding ticket because the police are bothering me while letting car thieves run among.

A bank or oil company deserves it because they're rich, right? A person deserves to be mugged because they were expensive clothes, right? A woman got herself into trouble because she dressed the part. You see where this is going?

java: Don't bring facts into this. We all know that oil companies get all the land and oil rights and equipment and employees they want for free, and then sell oil at $100 a barrel. It's a huge Ponzi scheme.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
If you take something that's not yours and you either don't pay for it or return services in-kind, you have technically "stole" it. Regardless of whom owns said product, it is stealing. Period.


I don't steal. Nevertheless, that robinhood theory!


You guys are sweet, you really are. I mean, I'm not going to argue with the basic premise of your arguments- they're correct. Your hearts are in the right place.

The formula's right.... but I'm not here to brutalize anyone with raw views.

All that needs to be said is, there's a magnitude of stakes involved with regards to our very lives and livelihoods that is largely unrealised in this exchange. And a nod to the irony of addressing them on an oil forum
smile.gif
But back to being serious, the game is rigged. Traditional moral considerations become inherently invalid. Who would argue that ben loden should have been fairly tried, that seal team 6 had no morals?! It's noble, to think of, and consider the man robbing your house's right to fair trial, as you take aim, but why choose that particular moment to come to his defense- as he's robbing you? Likewise, the major oils, banks and pharm-medical industries in particular are very unique and notable exceptions to traditional justice. Notice how I didn't bother mentioning 'government', no need to be redundant
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: jrustles
But Exxon mobil losing out on an infinitesimally small sum of PROFIT is the victim.

Of course, there is case law to back that up. Like I said, try it. Let us know how it turns out. Or, rob a bank. Again, update us on how well it goes to claim there's no victim.

An entity, be it a person or a company, engaging in untoward behaviour in no way means they can never be victimized. That's rationalization. It's no better than saying I shouldn't get a speeding ticket because the police are bothering me while letting car thieves run among.

A bank or oil company deserves it because they're rich, right? A person deserves to be mugged because they were expensive clothes, right? A woman got herself into trouble because she dressed the part. You see where this is going?

java: Don't bring facts into this. We all know that oil companies get all the land and oil rights and equipment and employees they want for free, and then sell oil at $100 a barrel. It's a huge Ponzi scheme.
wink.gif



It's all a conspiracy!!!
grin.gif
 
Ok, I can see where you are coming from now, moral values and big businesses of any kind don't mix. A big business can and does get away with all sorts of real crime that affects real people, just by signing a cheque. Us little guys, don't have that option.
Stealing gas though, isn't an effective detterent or penalty to big oil.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Ok, I can see where you are coming from now, moral values and big businesses of any kind don't mix. A big business can and does get away with all sorts of real crime that affects real people, just by signing a cheque. Us little guys, don't have that option.
Stealing gas though, isn't an effective detterent or penalty to big oil.


The problem is, we need them more they need us. If profits are not there, they'll stop refining the oil. At some point, carbon based energy is going away. Now if that's in the next 100 years or 100,000 is another debate.
 
Except one doesn't exist in a vacuum. So while everyone has their own standard of morality, society will also tell those who don't live up to societies standard they have fallen short.

One might say, "he needed killing." But if society doesn't agree with you, then your personal standard makes no difference in the eyes of the law.

Same here. Some may say, stealing from an oil company really isn't wrong. But if caught doing so, I don't think the law will see things the same way.

Originally Posted By: accent2012
The difference between right and wrong is up to the eye of the beholder.
 
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