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#3369725 - 05/12/14 06:58 PM anti-seize/grease without metals as base for WS2
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Pacific NW
I have a firearm where the manufacturer recommends a heavy Moly content anti-seize for a location inside. He recommends an LPS product O4108. I need to find an alternative without any metals to which I can add WS2. The manufacturer states that damage will occur without this material in the designated places.

The point they want this to be applied is an area that is rotating, sliding, and striking with serious force. I suspect the only active material is the MoS2 and the rest of the grease base just keeps it around. I have tried to get an answer to the question of whether the grease actually has any other effect. No go.

LPS has a version in the same product line that is food rated, that probably has the same base but no metals. I could not find data on their web site to determine if that is actually true.

It just seems like the wrong thing to put in the gun. Can anyone recommend a high quality grease suitable for use with the WS2 additive for this purpose. It needs to be free of its' own metal components. I would assume that staying in place, high temperatures, while not being so dense it slows the action down would be the basic criteria.

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#3371408 - 05/14/14 11:38 AM Re: anti-seize/grease without metals as base for WS2 [Re: alternety]
ironman_gq Offline


Registered: 04/30/14
Posts: 592
Loc: MN
What is the firearm?

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#3371873 - 05/14/14 08:12 PM Re: anti-seize/grease without metals as base for WS2 [Re: alternety]
Solarent Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 912
Loc: Toronto ON
How are you planning on mixing the WS2 with the grease? Have you successfully done this before?

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#3371911 - 05/14/14 08:41 PM Re: anti-seize/grease without metals as base for WS2 [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Pacific NW
I am going to mix the IF WS2 into the grease. I have not done this because I need to find a suitable base grease. I am not a lube person. Although I did stay at a chain motel a few years back.

I have used non-IF WS2 in alcohol for several items including a set of electric motor bearings. I have some off the shelf engine oil with a low percentage of the IF WS2 in it. Two different versions of WS2; different particle sizes and behavior. Both of these uses have been successful.

I will mix the IF WS2 concentrate I have in alcohol or maybe Kroil to get it into small spaces. The concentrate has mineral oil as its' base; I do not really want mineral oil in a gun. So whatever I do with this concentrate, other than in grease, I will want to flush out the base carrier after a while.

The manufacturer of the concentrate also makes a concentrate designed for addition to grease, but I have found no sources to purchase it, let alone in small quantities. If I can not get the material for grease, I will use the concentrate I have.

I need a good base grease. Probably something other than Lithium for high performance. Containing no boundary type additives that want to adhere to the treated surface (e.g., moly, ZDDP, etc.). It would conflict with the action of the WS2. Probably something fairly sticky but not hardening or prone to losing solvent.

When applied, the grease will get hot and get beaten at high shock and pressure levels.

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#3371921 - 05/14/14 08:49 PM Re: anti-seize/grease without metals as base for WS2 [Re: alternety]
Solarent Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 912
Loc: Toronto ON
The reason I ask is because you don't really mechanically mix greases, it gets cooked in a pressurized kettle system, which activates the thickening agent and some of the additives, I am not sure that stirring in your concentrate would have the desired effect.

Further I am unaware of any greases that have minimal additives in them that would not compete with your WS2. Going the food grade route might help, but make sure it's H1 not H2. That or maybe a run of the mill lithium with no moly. But most of those use mineral base oils. Even synthetic greases often use group III.

Happy hunting!

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#3372417 - 05/15/14 11:33 AM Re: anti-seize/grease without metals as base for WS2 [Re: alternety]
doitmyself Offline


Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 5941
Loc: MI
Originally Posted By: alternety
I have a firearm where the manufacturer recommends a heavy Moly content anti-seize for a location inside. He recommends an LPS product O4108. I need to find an alternative without any metals to which I can add WS2. The manufacturer states that damage will occur without this material in the designated places.


Interesting debate about moly lubes in firearms. What is wrong with the mfg. recommendation of multi purpose LPS product sans copper/nickel (it does have lithium complex base and graphite).

You guys appear to be trying to concoct something better.

Unfortunately, grease discussions at BITOG rarely attract real industry experts.

Seems like you should contact a company like Dow Molykote and ask directly which product meets your specifications exactly.

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#3372533 - 05/15/14 01:51 PM Re: anti-seize/grease without metals as base for WS2 [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Pacific NW
doit - because IF WS2 is a superior material to all you mentioned.

Solarent - Thanks. That info is useful.

The WS2 is already dispersed in a bit of mineral oil. I am thinking for a small quantity I could use my wife's Cuisinart :-)

I just need a little bit, so I figure I can probably get enough mixed together mechanically to get er done. Maybe some mile heating to smooth things out. If I can find a grease that does not conflict with WS2 for the surface I will give it a try. If it does not work; no harm done.

A bit of clarification. Materials doing boundary lubrication would probably be OK as long as they do not try to permanently bond to the substrate.

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#3374256 - 05/17/14 07:28 PM Re: anti-seize/grease without metals as base for WS2 [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Pacific NW
Still looking around to see what I can find.

One thing I am not sure of (and could use some advice) is if the mineral oil in my concentrate will cause problems with the grease base. I did ask LPS last week about this but I did a rotten job of framing my question. I sent a new email today. The food grade version of the recommended grease does not indicate additives in the simple data I have been able to find. It is an Aluminum complex base; which I believe from my rummaging about, is a good thing.

Reading through some threads here, I have come across a couple of things. Dow Silicone Paste. It looks interesting. It does not mention additives. It may be a pure silicone. I don't know how it would work with my mineral oil content. I will try asking Dow about the paste.

There is a thread about brake parts lubes. Some possibilities there, but I have not found what might be in them. Sticky, high temperature, don't harden. But they seem to lean toward some sort of potentially surface bonding additive.

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#3375766 - 05/19/14 04:27 PM Re: anti-seize/grease without metals as base for WS2 [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Pacific NW
I sent a request to LPS and they recommended ThermaPlex Aqua and ThermaPlex FoodLube. They are both Aluminum complex material. The tech sheets and MSDS can be found on their site. I am not having success at getting the actual URL for the sheets.

I also contacted www.super-lube.com. They recommended http://www.super-lube.com/super-lube-anticorrosion-gel-ezp-199.html.

And Amsoil http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/grease/x-treme-synthetic-food-grade-grease/

If one of you experts could peek at the info and provide you opinion of the chance of success with any of these I would really appreciate it.

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