2015 Outback - Subaru drops the MT and AT

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Originally Posted By: Miller88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rmelLUwBi0&feature=youtu.be

Here we go. Took some of me driving around the neighborhood

Doesn't seem too bad? I probably do about the same even with the lower gearing. I do have a habit now of not coming to a complete stop if I can avoid it, which results in starts with nearly no slippage.
I think your probably used to a lower 1st from the jeeps, and if I have a trailer on, or off road, I appreciate the low 1st on the Tracker, but most of the time shifting half way across the intersection is a bit annoying and you have to rev 1st fairly high to come into 2nd at a reasonable rpm.
 
I guess I'm still not used to it :p

I do the same with stop signs as well.

You have a bit more miles/KMs on your Focus than mine. How does the clutch feel? The other problem with mine is the bad motor mount causes some interesting situations. The clutch will engage, then the engine/trans will rock backwards and take up the slack then the car will suddenly jolt and take off. I really need to get that replaced.
 
I've got 50k miles on the Focus now, but I bought it last year with 32k miles. It was a lady driver who had it before and did mostly city driving, but the clutch feels fine to me, engages progressively and holds well. Your car does sound a little like the passenger side mount is done, its fluid filled. I replaced mine a few months ago and it made a big difference for engine vibes, but not engine motion. I've got a new drivers side mount to go in next, and then I'll probably try one poly insert into the torque(or dogbone) mount under the car. Its designed to allow a lot of engine rocking, so I'll do the big hole first and see if it stops the exessive movement without too much extra NVH.
I did an insert on the torque mount on the Neon and it made a big difference in engine rocking, which made the car feel much better for autocross and stopped almost all wheelhop off the line. The Focus will feel a lot better with much less engine rocking even in normal driving I think.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
To eliminate the rubber band effect, Toyota, Honda and Subaru program "shift" points under moderate - hard acceleration.


Understand that, but to say the CVT must be great because there are smooth shifts is the utter nonsense.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Miller88
To eliminate the rubber band effect, Toyota, Honda and Subaru program "shift" points under moderate - hard acceleration.


Understand that, but to say the CVT must be great because there are smooth shifts is the utter nonsense.


Until someone can make them reliably last 100K miles - they are rubbish as far as I'm concerned.
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Until someone can make them reliably last 100K miles - they are rubbish as far as I'm concerned.


Prius.



That's a bit different than the CVT one would find in a Nissan , Toyot Corolla or Accord
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Miller88
To eliminate the rubber band effect, Toyota, Honda and Subaru program "shift" points under moderate - hard acceleration.


Understand that, but to say the CVT must be great because there are smooth shifts is the utter nonsense.


Until someone can make them reliably last 100K miles - they are rubbish as far as I'm concerned.


160K and the one in my Freestyle works like new. I have two neighbors with them, one is over 200K, and one is almost at 300K, same transmission. There have been a few input shaft failures and parts are hard to get since Ford only made the transmission for 3 years--but it's been a very durable transmission.

I'm not sure why folks have the assumption that CVT's won't last. There are fewer moving parts than an AT and no friction materials to wear out. I think that mostly it's just fear of the unknown...
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Miller88
To eliminate the rubber band effect, Toyota, Honda and Subaru program "shift" points under moderate - hard acceleration.


Understand that, but to say the CVT must be great because there are smooth shifts is the utter nonsense.


Until someone can make them reliably last 100K miles - they are rubbish as far as I'm concerned.


There are a lot of Rogues, Altimas, Muranos that experience CVT failure for some reason. That scares me.
160K and the one in my Freestyle works like new. I have two neighbors with them, one is over 200K, and one is almost at 300K, same transmission. There have been a few input shaft failures and parts are hard to get since Ford only made the transmission for 3 years--but it's been a very durable transmission.

I'm not sure why folks have the assumption that CVT's won't last. There are fewer moving parts than an AT and no friction materials to wear out. I think that mostly it's just fear of the unknown...
 
Originally Posted By: JOD

I'm not sure why folks have the assumption that CVT's won't last. There are fewer moving parts than an AT and no friction materials to wear out. I think that mostly it's just fear of the unknown...



While I would agree the vast majority of these units are performing well for most owners I would disagree there are no friction materials to wear out!

Ever see how these typically work?
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: JOD

I'm not sure why folks have the assumption that CVT's won't last. There are fewer moving parts than an AT and no friction materials to wear out. I think that mostly it's just fear of the unknown...



While I would agree the vast majority of these units are performing well for most owners I would disagree there are no friction materials to wear out!

Ever see how these typically work?


Well, I'm most familiar with the one in my own car (ZF CFT-30), and there are no friction materials to wear out on this transmission (unless you consider the chain or drive pulleys to be "friction materials"). The friction is provided by the fluid under compression. There are are no sacrificial clutches etc, and there is literally nothing to "wear out" except the fluid.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that the Ford (or any) CVT is perfect. There have been a fair number of input shaft failures (most related to an O-ring), but on the transmission itself there are really no wear points like there are with a conventional automatic.

There IS a conventional torque converter, which does contain a typically clutch--so yeah, that potentially will wear out, but 1) it locks down WAY less than the torque converter in a conventional AT and 2) it's no different than the torque converter in a regular AT.

Back to the subject at hand though, I don't see a reason to avoid Subaru's CVT because Nissan had trouble with their transmission... While there may be some bad examples of CVT's out there, the Subie transmission seems pretty reliable so ar.
 
Very true JOD. Subaru's CVT is exceptional. Very well built unit.
 
I like the concept of them. A car can accelerate in the most fuel efficient RPM. If the person needs to accelerate hard, it will go up to the RPM where it makes the most power.

I can deal with the awkwardness of them.

Nissan's CVTs have a pretty bad reputation for reliability. I fear that the Nissan CVT is going to be the Oldsmobile 350 Diesel of CVTs - scaring Americans away from them early.

The Freestar/Five Hundred never seemed to have too many problems with them. But look at the Saturn Vues of that era that used a CVT. Unreliable and the replacement costs are extremely expensive.

If someone can make them reliable, I think they would be excellent for city driving. Automatic transmissions wear pretty quickly if you're shifting constantly - IE - low speed traffic jam, millions of stop lights.
 
Like I say, in regards to modern day Subarus specifically. IMO, the CVT is superior to the Subaru 5 speed manual as far as driveability. I'm still love/hate with my new XV Crosstrek's 5spd. I loved the CVT in my 2012 Legacy.

It's a pretty common option amongst other XV owners.
 
http://www.gizmag.com/gms-tapshift-technology-zl1/21568/

Quote:
Newer automatic transmissions with manual modes are becoming so convincing, in fact, that a Porsche engineer predicts the 911 will lose its manual transmission in less than a decade, even though Porsche just designed a new seven-speed manual for the 2012 911. Michael Schätzle, project manager for the new 911, told Automobile magazine this week that the manual has no more than "one or two generations" left to live. He said that 78 percent of global 911 buyers already choose Porsche's seven-speed PDK automated transmission over the manual option.
 
Yeah its a shame, manuals are nice. But 25/33 city/hgwy is subaru's estimate, well have to wait till EPA gives it number.
So far Nissan is considered to have the best "feeling" CVTs and new rogue AWD does EPA: 25/32 mpg

Also Nissan has 110K miles warranty for their CVTs
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: JOD

I'm not sure why folks have the assumption that CVT's won't last. There are fewer moving parts than an AT and no friction materials to wear out. I think that mostly it's just fear of the unknown...



While I would agree the vast majority of these units are performing well for most owners I would disagree there are no friction materials to wear out!

Ever see how these typically work?


Well, I'm most familiar with the one in my own car (ZF CFT-30), and there are no friction materials to wear out on this transmission (unless you consider the chain or drive pulleys to be "friction materials"). The friction is provided by the fluid under compression. There are are no sacrificial clutches etc, and there is literally nothing to "wear out" except the fluid.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that the Ford (or any) CVT is perfect. There have been a fair number of input shaft failures (most related to an O-ring), but on the transmission itself there are really no wear points like there are with a conventional automatic.

There IS a conventional torque converter, which does contain a typically clutch--so yeah, that potentially will wear out, but 1) it locks down WAY less than the torque converter in a conventional AT and 2) it's no different than the torque converter in a regular AT.

Back to the subject at hand though, I don't see a reason to avoid Subaru's CVT because Nissan had trouble with their transmission... While there may be some bad examples of CVT's out there, the Subie transmission seems pretty reliable so ar.


Your post mentioned Fords. Another quoted poster mentioned two other brands and Subaru. There was nothing to indicate you wished to confine the discussion to Subaru only.

But again I ask, have you actually seen how they work? The pulleys or sheaves slide the belt or chain up and down themselves. This is indeed a severe wear point and is the primary reason that these are NEVER spec'd for any high torque applications. They simply cannot do it. And please note that a TC is not simply on or off anymore, many apps vary the lock up and some even 'stutter' the lock to inhibit the driveline vibe some cars have.

As I stated earlier the average small car buyer is getting good service from a CVT, but they can and will wear out eventually, just like anything else...
 
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I actually found some pics of the internals as well. All the torque is transfered by the ends of the pins on the chain/belt. I am surprised they can hold as many hp as they do now and it must require alot of force to have any grip at all between the pins and the pullies.
It would be interesting to see some close ups of a set of pullies and chain look like after 100k.
 
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