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#3317627 - 03/19/14 11:41 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
needsducktape Offline


Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Sacramento CA
This is going way off track...
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#3317630 - 03/19/14 11:43 PM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: wallyuwl]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 656
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
don't trust Toyota, and haven't even looked at their options for our soon-to-be-purchased new vehicle.


wallyuwul- do you trust GM? Why or why not?
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#3317669 - 03/20/14 01:31 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: accent2012]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 656
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: accent2012
If something is off by a millimeter, then the car would explode. So, big government should do something to protect us weaklings.


Off by a millimeter? How about if 2 design flaws can cause the accelerator pedal to stick, and the vehicle manufacturer knows of these issues but only partially addresses them, then big gov't should intervene? Sounds a lot more reasonable when you tell the whole story vs. your laughable hyperbole.
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#3317690 - 03/20/14 04:35 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
moving2 Offline


Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 656
Loc: USA
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#3317696 - 03/20/14 05:06 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: dishdude]
Number21 Offline


Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 230
Loc: OR
Originally Posted By: dishdude
When you produce as many vehicles as GM and Toyota, some mistakes and design flaws are bound to happen. The bashing isn't necessary.


You seem to have missed the point entirely. They lied to cover up their mistakes. Mistakes happen. Lies don't.

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#3317717 - 03/20/14 06:02 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: d00df00d]
NHHEMI Offline


Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 6612
Loc: NH
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: jrustles
it's all brainwashing and brand psychology. those reputations were "unblemished" as you put it due to serious PR/censorship muscle.

Between Honda and Toyota, there has been exactly one model in the past 10-15 years that I would even consider buying for myself. I recently had the opportunity to buy a fantastic example of that car, and I passed it up with barely a second thought. If they've brainwashed me, they've done a terrible job. wink

Prior to Toyota's recent nosedive, and with the further exception of Honda's glass 5-speed autos, every single Toyota and Honda I've had personal experience with has been stone cold reliable, even under incredible abuse. Maybe that makes me the one person in the entire universe whose experience has matched the hype.


When I sold parts I sold just as many for Toyota and Honda as I did the Big 3. Their "superior reliability" is definitely a myth. Now that isn't saying they are unreliable nor that owner's have not had good luck with them but rather they are no where near as good as the mag's and loyal owner's make them out to be. Usually costs a lot more to fix them as well.
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#3317779 - 03/20/14 07:30 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: Silverado12]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 6984
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: Hermann
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Nice.
Now, how much GM should pay then.


Looks like GM is on the hook for $30-$60 billion, if they have to pay the same amount per death. Looks like bailout time again.


Apparently GM didn't lie about the problems like Toyota, but who knows.


That's hilarious! If you believe that, the missing plane landed in Florida...

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#3317780 - 03/20/14 07:32 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: NHHEMI]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 6984
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: jrustles
it's all brainwashing and brand psychology. those reputations were "unblemished" as you put it due to serious PR/censorship muscle.

Between Honda and Toyota, there has been exactly one model in the past 10-15 years that I would even consider buying for myself. I recently had the opportunity to buy a fantastic example of that car, and I passed it up with barely a second thought. If they've brainwashed me, they've done a terrible job. wink

Prior to Toyota's recent nosedive, and with the further exception of Honda's glass 5-speed autos, every single Toyota and Honda I've had personal experience with has been stone cold reliable, even under incredible abuse. Maybe that makes me the one person in the entire universe whose experience has matched the hype.


When I sold parts I sold just as many for Toyota and Honda as I did the Big 3. Their "superior reliability" is definitely a myth. Now that isn't saying they are unreliable nor that owner's have not had good luck with them but rather they are no where near as good as the mag's and loyal owner's make them out to be. Usually costs a lot more to fix them as well.


At least their engines don't have to be replaced at 60K miles...

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#3317781 - 03/20/14 07:34 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: Number21]
grampi Offline


Registered: 10/08/06
Posts: 6984
Loc: OH
Originally Posted By: Number21
Originally Posted By: dishdude
When you produce as many vehicles as GM and Toyota, some mistakes and design flaws are bound to happen. The bashing isn't necessary.


You seem to have missed the point entirely. They lied to cover up their mistakes. Mistakes happen. Lies don't.


You can name anything Toyota is guilty of and the big 3 are guilty of the same 10 fold...

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#3317845 - 03/20/14 09:09 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
needsducktape Offline


Registered: 05/08/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Sacramento CA
I'm pretty sure they are all shrewd at the very least.

The key here is that TOYOTA LIED and knew the issue approximately TWO years before the famous 911 call & crash (where a family DIED).
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#3317867 - 03/20/14 09:30 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: moving2]
wallyuwl Offline


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 1673
Loc: Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
don't trust Toyota, and haven't even looked at their options for our soon-to-be-purchased new vehicle.


wallyuwul- do you trust GM? Why or why not?


We haven't looked at GM's offerings in the segment (Traverse, etc.) because I don't really trust GM's build quality. We have an Equinox with the 2.4L and it hasn't been good. The rest of the vehicle has been solid in terms of build, but not the engine. It has consumed oil from the beginning and needed a major repair (under warranty thankfully) in October. On the Equinox forum others have said they've needed this same repair two or three times. Major engine design and/or parts flaw. They wanted a vehicle this size to get the big MPG number and rushed it to market. It wasn't ready and from what I hear they are still making it the same way as five years ago. The other problem I have is how the transmission shifts. It is purely software related and GM won't do a new calibration for it (they did one a few months after the original release that helped but still isn't great - we got the new one actually off of the laptop of a GM engineer who drove down from Detroit four and a half years ago, so we had it before the dealers did, and I told him it is good but not perfected, so they know about it).

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#3317870 - 03/20/14 09:36 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: tenderloin]
oily boyd Offline


Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 534
Loc: WI
At the risk of getting this thread locked:

It's pretty rich when the US Government accuses anyone of "concealing and making deceptive statements..."

*partial quote taken from a recent Forbes article*


Edited by oily boyd (03/20/14 09:36 AM)
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#3317879 - 03/20/14 09:51 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: oily boyd]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 6170
Loc: North Coast
Toyota is glad to settle the deal and move on. One thing the litigation did do is light a fire under their butts to be sensitive to defects in their vehicles which is a good thing.

But I do think there is a conflict of interest with the prosecution. Since the US was a major stakeholder in their #1 competitor. However all this does is make them stronger and more reliable in the future.

However, the public lesson to all the automakers is a good thing.
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#3317882 - 03/20/14 09:54 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: wallyuwl]
Silverado12 Offline


Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 2568
Loc: Central Virginia
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
don't trust Toyota, and haven't even looked at their options for our soon-to-be-purchased new vehicle.


wallyuwul- do you trust GM? Why or why not?


We haven't looked at GM's offerings in the segment (Traverse, etc.) because I don't really trust GM's build quality. We have an Equinox with the 2.4L and it hasn't been good. The rest of the vehicle has been solid in terms of build, but not the engine. It has consumed oil from the beginning and needed a major repair (under warranty thankfully) in October. On the Equinox forum others have said they've needed this same repair two or three times. Major engine design and/or parts flaw. They wanted a vehicle this size to get the big MPG number and rushed it to market. It wasn't ready and from what I hear they are still making it the same way as five years ago. The other problem I have is how the transmission shifts. It is purely software related and GM won't do a new calibration for it (they did one a few months after the original release that helped but still isn't great - we got the new one actually off of the laptop of a GM engineer who drove down from Detroit four and a half years ago, so we had it before the dealers did, and I told him it is good but not perfected, so they know about it).


Wife has a 2012 that she ordered new in 2011 (Equinox 2.4) and the only problem with it was a pinched wire going to the liftgate (assembly error). Engine has been flawless and gets good mileage, although not quite what the EPA says it should get. I've noticed that for just about every mfg, there are first and sonetimes second year problems. The Japanese have a tendency to test in their home market first before they sell them over here, so the bugs are usually worked out. Their quality control seems second to none, though. I just prefer Chrysler and GM to any of the imports. My Chrysler products have been better than anything, but YMMV.
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#3317889 - 03/20/14 09:59 AM Re: Toyota pays $1.2-billion federal fine [Re: needsducktape]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 6170
Loc: North Coast
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
I'm pretty sure they are all shrewd at the very least.

The key here is that TOYOTA LIED and knew the issue approximately TWO years before the famous 911 call & crash (where a family DIED).


True. GM now faces the same thing with the ignition recall. But their new CEO took a line from the Toyota CEO and came out and apologized right away.

Ford ignored the data and then lied with the Firestone tire recall on the Explorer and suffered the near destruction of one of America's top selling SUV brands because so many people were killed in them. They also destroyed a 100 year old supplier relationship doing so. Jack Nassar was the real problem until Bill Ford fired him and actually threw him out of Ford HQ.

So, the days of hiding fatal defects in automobiles in the US is coming to a close. My guess is that it is the result of so much mass instant communication on the internet that prevents the automakers from hiding the number of fatal accidents with their products.
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