Archoil 9100 added to Mercon V - Manual Trans??

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I use Archoil 9100 in my engine oil (2006 PSD) and the results have been stellar.

I am getting ready to do a transmission fluid change in the truck that specs Mercon V fluid for the ZF6 Tranny.

Is there going to be any issues with adding 4 ounces of 9100 to the new fluid? Archiol recommends "Auto Trans-Use 3 oz of AR9100 to treat 1 gallon auto transmission fluid." IIRC, the ZF6 uses just under 6 quarts.

My fear is that I don't know enough about synchros in a manual transmission vs an actual auto transmission.
 
Originally Posted By: sw99
I use Archoil 9100 in my engine oil (2006 PSD) and the results have been stellar.

I am getting ready to do a transmission fluid change in the truck that specs Mercon V fluid for the ZF6 Tranny.

Is there going to be any issues with adding 4 ounces of 9100 to the new fluid? Archiol recommends "Auto Trans-Use 3 oz of AR9100 to treat 1 gallon auto transmission fluid." IIRC, the ZF6 uses just under 6 quarts.

My fear is that I don't know enough about synchros in a manual transmission vs an actual auto transmission.

9100 Spec Sheet

Kudos to their copywriter: "potassium nanoborate", "complex fatty acid esters", "far more lubricious", "solid boundary lubricant". However, it's really not clear what this product is and how it supposed to work.

Their address in Wallingford is at a strip mall:

69 North Turnpike Road

so I assume they are not actually a manufacturer. That's not a problem - I know some one-man shops who put together speciality products in their basement that actually work, but they seem to offer "something for everyone".

Where did you encounter them?
 
Wilhelm, Archoil is most popular in Powerstroke diesel applications where many have had great success eliminating the "stiction" issue on those motors(injectors specifically). I first heard of them on Jay Lenos Garage myself.

sw99, your application amount seems to be fine. On whether or not to do it.. that's a tough call. I've used LG red in manual trans without any issue, but I'm not sure how much the AR9100 will reduce friction. I'm guessing that's maybe why they suggest a small amount? If you do go for it, I would love to hear your impressions.
 
Please use something better than MerconV for an MTX. A dedicated MTF will serve you better.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Please use something better than MerconV for an MTX. A dedicated MTF will serve you better.


Mercon V is what Ford specs for my Tranny and these seem to run just fine on it.
 
Originally Posted By: panthermike
sw99, your application amount seems to be fine. On whether or not to do it.. that's a tough call. I've used LG red in manual trans without any issue, but I'm not sure how much the AR9100 will reduce friction. I'm guessing that's maybe why they suggest a small amount? If you do go for it, I would love to hear your impressions.


I'll definitely post up if I do it. I would love to hear from more of the more experienced tranny/synchro guru's just in case this is a bad idea and there is something I'm missing.
 
Originally Posted By: sw99
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Please use something better than MerconV for an MTX. A dedicated MTF will serve you better.


Mercon V is what Ford specs for my Tranny and these seem to run just fine on it.


there is "fine" and there is "much better." MerconV only fits the "fine" category.
 
Originally Posted By: sw99
Originally Posted By: panthermike
sw99, your application amount seems to be fine. On whether or not to do it.. that's a tough call. I've used LG red in manual trans without any issue, but I'm not sure how much the AR9100 will reduce friction. I'm guessing that's maybe why they suggest a small amount? If you do go for it, I would love to hear your impressions.


I'll definitely post up if I do it. I would love to hear from more of the more experienced tranny/synchro guru's just in case this is a bad idea and there is something I'm missing.


Yeah, you are missing a fluid with an additive pack designed for synchro and gear protection.
 
Now this thread has me wondering. I have to admit that I find it odd that 95% of MT's use MTF and the other 5% use ATF. The ZF is German made and I have yet to see a German auto maker using ATF in the manual trannys. So what gives?
 
Originally Posted By: sw99
Now this thread has me wondering. I have to admit that I find it odd that 95% of MT's use MTF and the other 5% use ATF. The ZF is German made and I have yet to see a German auto maker using ATF in the manual trannys. So what gives?



I agree. The number of manual transmissions that allow ATF is shrinking. ZF is actually pretty specific about what should go in their auto transmissions, typically Lifeguard6 or 8 (depending on application). Their manual transmissions typically require a 75w90 GL-4.
 
Can you explain what you mean by "stellar", and how you attribute it to the Archoil 9100 and not to the oil or any thing else?

I mean, I use M1 oil with nothing else added in all my vehicles, and it has been stellar. Really it has been, after nearly 300,000 miles in a sludge-year 1MZ-FE the internals are very, very clean, as shown by photos I have posted here. And no consumption to speak of either. I also use M1 ATF and that too has been stellar, as evidenced by the fact that the transmissions are still operating and there is minimal clutch goop in the pan along with very clean magnets.

Originally Posted By: sw99
I use Archoil 9100 in my engine oil (2006 PSD) and the results have been stellar.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Can you explain what you mean by "stellar", and how you attribute it to the Archoil 9100 and not to the oil or any thing else?


One word... Stiction

The 9100 results I say are "stellar" are specifically geared towards my experience while using in my 6.0 PSD. Night and day difference.
 
Originally Posted By: sw99
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Can you explain what you mean by "stellar", and how you attribute it to the Archoil 9100 and not to the oil or any thing else?


One word... Stiction

The 9100 results I say are "stellar" are specifically geared towards my experience while using in my 6.0 PSD. Night and day difference.


What is your definition of "Stiction" and why would want stiction?
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: sw99
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Can you explain what you mean by "stellar", and how you attribute it to the Archoil 9100 and not to the oil or any thing else?


One word... Stiction

The 9100 results I say are "stellar" are specifically geared towards my experience while using in my 6.0 PSD. Night and day difference.


What is your definition of "Stiction" and why would want stiction?


Mola, look up Powerstroke stiction, very common problem. You don't want stiction is the point, seems many have had success with AR9100 reducing or eliminating the issue.
 
Quote:
Mola, look up Powerstroke stiction, very common problem. You don't want stiction is the point, seems many have had success with AR9100 reducing or eliminating the issue.


We're discussing Manual Transmissions, not diesel fuel injectors.

Maybe someone can explain why stiction is needed in MTs.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Mola, look up Powerstroke stiction, very common problem. You don't want stiction is the point, seems many have had success with AR9100 reducing or eliminating the issue.


We're discussing Manual Transmissions, not diesel fuel injectors.

Maybe someone can explain why stiction is needed in MTs.


I understand that, but I believe sw99 was referring to the stiction issue with the injectors, which is the comment I responded to. Sorry if you thought I was inferring it was for his transmission, as I certainly wasn't. Obviously stiction isn't related to the transmission. As far as using AR9100 in the trans, I personally wouldn't do it. I added it to my '77 F250s engine and can't really say I've noticed anything; positive or negative.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Mola, look up Powerstroke stiction, very common problem. You don't want stiction is the point, seems many have had success with AR9100 reducing or eliminating the issue.


We're discussing Manual Transmissions, not diesel fuel injectors.

Maybe someone can explain why stiction is needed in MTs.


I was answering someone's question as to why I thought the 9100 results were "stellar" when used in conjunction with engine oil specifically in my PSD.

I still have 20 ounces left so that's what made me curious if the friction modifiers would be of any assistance in the tranny. Acrhoil mentions use in transmissions but nothing more than that.
 
I see.

Let's define some tribology terms here.

Stiction is "static friction." and it is a threshold, not a continuous force.

In fuel injectors a hydrocarbon film may may cause the retard of the onset of needle movement, but it will eventually be overcome by electrical and or hydraulic forces in the injector system.

The drawback to this is a delay in injector opening (timing) as commanded by the ECU.

Once a solvent or lubricant is introduced to remove this hydrocarbon film, the injector is free to open "on time."

Apparently the AR9100 is simply a Borate FM compound in an oil carrier.

So, I would NOT use this in an MT or an AT since this might interfere with the formulated oil which already has a specific Friction Modifiers for the dedicated fluid.

Quote:
One thing you should be aware of is that when manf. speak of Friction Modifiers they are speaking of the friction modifiers for that specific fluid, in this case an ATF.

There are different friction modifiers for ATFs, MTLs, differentials, and engine oils.

An ATF friction modifier is not the same as an MTL friction modifier, is not the same as a PCMO friction modifier, is not the same as a differential lube friction modifier.


I hope this helps with your decision making process.

Mola
 
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One must dig deep (and be patient) for the knowledge of concentrations (at the bottom):

Quote:
AR9100 PRODUCT DESCRIPTION ARCHOIL's patented potassium Nanoborate lubrication technology dramatically reduces operating friction protecting equipment from wear, extending operating life, and reducing operating energy requirements. Boron lubrication technology was initially developed at the Argonne National Laboratory for the US Dept. of Energy. Representing a ground-breaking advance in lubrication technology, boron was demonstrated to greatly enhance lubrication protection through the formation of a nearly frictionless solid boundary layer. Since 1990, when Dr. Ali Erdemir discovered that boron was the most effective extreme pressure agent and created solids with the lowest measured friction coefficients, tribologists (lubrication scientists) have recognized the tremendous advancement boron lubricants represented. Initial efforts to commercialize boron lubricants were hampered by large boric acid particle sizes. Archoil's revolutionary new potassium nanoborate formulation represents the 2nd generation in boron tribology and another huge leap forward in lubrication with its unique ability to reduce boron size down to the more efficient 'nano' level and deliver it in a naturally occurring fatty acid ester matrix carrier. AR9100's proprietary ester carrier is specially formulated to facilitate the migration of the protective boron nanoparticles to surface metal. AR9100's surface friction coefficient tests at 0.037. It is dramatically more lubricious than traditional lubrication oils, and it is capable of bearing loads many times that of other solid boundary lubricants. AR9100 is highly concentrated. Dilute in standard lubrication oil as directed for the specific application. FEATURES / BENEFITS: • Reduces surface friction 60-80% • Reduces operating energy requirements / increases fuel efficiency • Increases horsepower • Reduces fluid system wear up to 75% • Minimizes fluid oxidation- extends the oil drain cycle / reduces downtime • Reduces operating temperatures up to 30% - 40% • Inhibits corrosion • Extreme Pressure agent -absorbs shock loads of up to 4000 lbs • Cleans out pre-existing carbon and varnish build up • Reduces emissions Biodegradable and non-toxic SPECIFICATIONS: Color ..…………………. Brown liquid Base Fluid ..………….. Fatty acid esters Viscosity………………. 150 SUS at 100OF Specific Gravity …… 1,000 at 25OC Nano variants……… Nanoborate (proprietary processing) D.O.T. ………………… Unregulated V.O.C. ………………… None Biodegradable ……. Yes SUMMARY OF TEST RESULTS: Falex Pin & Vee Test ASTM D-3233 (3.5% in 100 neutral mineral oil): Load 3750 Torque 47 COF 0.037 (coefficient of friction) APPLICATION: Engine oil treat at 28.5 to 1 = 1.12 oz per quart Gear oil treat at 10-1 = 3.2oz per quart Hydraulic oil treat at 10-1 = 3.2oz per quart Automatic transmissions treat at 1oz per gallon PACKAGING: 8 oz. bottle 16 oz. bottle 32 oz. bottle 1 gallon pail 5 gallon pail 55 gallon drum
 
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