F1 - Austrailian Grand Prix

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Trav
They are doing what was done to rally racing years ago when the stopped the B class.


True, BUT, the current WRC cars are doing faster stage times now than the last of the fastest Group B cars were back then, and have been doing so for a while.

Granted, it took them all through the Group A era to get to this, but in comparison, the rule changes at F1 might actually be worse than, performance wise, the demotion from Group B to Group A rules in world rallying.

Maybe so but if you think about how fast these cars were going over 30 years ago when AWD was newer technology their performance was fantastic.

I much rather watch a B car than a new WRC but each to his own.
After watching this F1 race and the aftermath they can shove it, i wont waste my time watching it again.
This enviro/politically correct tripe they mentioned during the race has no place in F1.

 

[whip]

For the first time in a long time, I saw drivers fighting to control the car. I see high technology, that is relevant to road cars. I saw cars that failed to finish the race. To me, these are all good things. I don't care how they sound. I thought it was a good race, and i look forward to watching the season unfold.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Trav
After watching this F1 race and the aftermath they can shove it, i wont waste my time watching it again.
This enviro/politically correct tripe they mentioned during the race has no place in F1.

In fairness, it's looking like the fuel management won't be as onerous as we thought it would be. Of course, that's assuming that Red Bull wasn't the only team with some sort of violation.

I don't mind the notion of a fuel limit, but who really cares much about the rates? If they have two gallons leftover at the end or burn it all in one lap, who cares?

 

[Trav]

Exactly! I don't understand about the flow rate either.
F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motor racing not some sort of fuel economy run.

 

[Garak]

Like I said, I can live with fuel limitations. That adds a bit of challenge. But the rate? Letting them set whatever rate they want is part of the challenge, if you ask me. If he ran out of fuel before the end of the race, he would have gotten no points anyway. If he was burning so little fuel he couldn't keep up, he would have been out of contention.

Besides, wouldn't having a higher flow rate be a bit of a valuable fallback anyhow? If the energy recovery systems are having an issue, turn up the fuel, pray you don't run out, and carry on. Or, do they want to eliminate that strategy?

At least the tires weren't obnoxious this year (so far). I think much of this will smooth out, given some time. At least the lap times weren't appallingly slow - for properly working cars.

 

[Shannow]

Fuel content would have to be the easiest thing in the world to regulate. Here's your X number of gallons, use it wisely.

Back in the original turbo era, teams were freezing the fuel, and having it leak all over the place if the start was delayed. They were blending their own high energy cocktails that still had the required max octane ratings, and were a joke.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Fuel content would have to be the easiest thing in the world to regulate. Here's your X number of gallons, use it wisely.

Back in the original turbo era, teams were freezing the fuel, and having it leak all over the place if the start was delayed. They were blending their own high energy cocktails that still had the required max octane ratings, and were a joke.

I thought they said the cars can only 100Kg on board. The Australian kid was robbed because his flow rate was too high.

Why don't they just get a bunch of Toyota Prius type drive trains and let them put bodies on them. Thats about what F1 has sunk to.
From the pinnacle of motor sport to the joke of a senile old codger IMHO.

 

[gofast182]

I was wondering that, too. I thought they had 100Kg for a race but a race is more than an hour so with a flow/consumption rate of 100Kg/hr they'd have to have more on-board.

 

[IndyIan]

Controlling the fuel flow rate does prevent huge HP numbers without air intake restrictors. Although I always thought that accurately measuring fuel flow was quite difficult and it seems to be as the sensors are not consistant...
I guess red bull learned not to ignore the stewards in the future as well.

As for the sound, it reminds me of V twin race bikes, its not bad but not great either. I do like the torque of the drivetrains though, its good to see oversteer on exits.

 

[gofast182]

Thought about it more and it makes more sense. 100Kg/hr is a maximum rate and given they're not WOT for a decent chunk of each lap 100Kg will last longer than an hour with any safety car periods being a bonus.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Why don't they just get a bunch of Toyota Prius type drive trains and let them put bodies on them. Thats about what F1 has sunk to.
From the pinnacle of motor sport to the joke of a senile old codger IMHO.

Why not compare F1 to the amazing Porsche 917, McLaren P1, or the LaFerrari? They're all hybrids. I look forward to the day that the technology trickles down to the everyday car. Fuel saving, and alternative power is the future. Doesn't it seem logical that the pinnacle of motorsport would also be looking at the future?

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Trav
Why don't they just get a bunch of Toyota Prius type drive trains and let them put bodies on them. Thats about what F1 has sunk to.
From the pinnacle of motor sport to the joke of a senile old codger IMHO.

Why not compare F1 to the amazing Porsche 917, McLaren P1, or the LaFerrari? They're all hybrids. I look forward to the day that the technology trickles down to the everyday car. Fuel saving, and alternative power is the future. Doesn't it seem logical that the pinnacle of motorsport would also be looking at the future?

That's exactly what F1 is after with this move and it does seem to be the future. Fact is, hybrid systems like that in the Prius are now outdated and not very good (if they ever were). Things like we see in the McLaren, Porsche, Ferrari, and in the upcoming Acura NSX (and on the road right now in their RLX) are how you use a hybrid system to increase absolute performance.

My only possible gripe with F1 (other than the sound) is just make sure the drivers have enough fuel to run the race as hard as they can, the technology will inherently save fuel without having to slow anyone down. One way to do it would be to let them use as much fuel over 100Kg as they want but have some deduction from constructor points for each extra liter used. They'll want their drivers to win (because they won't get as many constructor points otherwise) but at the same time it will give them incentive to stay at 100Kg because they'll want the constructor money at the end of the year. This way you won't have drivers giving up positions when they may not have to.

 

[bar1]

McLaren P1 uses electric motor to increase performance. In F1 electric motor is used to save fuel...

Only thing I liked with the new cars is the "lack" of control. Kevin Magnussen almost went off track in the start and Valtteri Bottas touched the concrete wall.
Bottas/Williams at 5. place was a big surprise.

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: bar1
McLaren P1 uses electric motor to increase performance. In F1 electric motor is used to save fuel...

Only thing I liked with the new cars is the "lack" of control. Kevin Magnussen almost went off track in the start and Valtteri Bottas touched the concrete wall.
Bottas/Williams at 5. place was a big surprise.

You think the cars would be faster with just the 1.6T engine and no e motor? They wouldn't be.

I agree, it's nice to know that if the car is under control it's mostly the driver doing it. The cockpit footage of Magnussen throughout the race really surprised me with how smooth his inputs were. He's going to have a good F1 career ahead of him.

 

[bar1]

Originally Posted By: gofast182

You think the cars would be faster with just the 1.6T engine and no e motor? They wouldn't be.


If the turbo pressure and rpm wasn't restricted (or less than it is today). The last F1 turbo era had 1.5 liter 4 cyl. turbo engines that produced about 1,400 hp (1,044 kW) in qualifying.

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: bar1
Originally Posted By: gofast182

You think the cars would be faster with just the 1.6T engine and no e motor? They wouldn't be.


If the turbo pressure and rpm wasn't restricted (or less than it is today). The last F1 turbo era had 1.5 liter 4 cyl. turbo engines that produced about 1,400 hp (1,044 kW) in qualifying.

Well that's a silly argument. Of course if they did did that stuff the engines would make more power. The real point is, if you took the same 1.6T engine and removed the e motor, the car would not be faster, so it is there for both power and for fuel efficiency as the 'formula' is presently set up.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Trav
Why don't they just get a bunch of Toyota Prius type drive trains and let them put bodies on them. Thats about what F1 has sunk to.
From the pinnacle of motor sport to the joke of a senile old codger IMHO.

Why not compare F1 to the amazing Porsche 917, McLaren P1, or the LaFerrari? They're all hybrids. I look forward to the day that the technology trickles down to the everyday car. Fuel saving, and alternative power is the future. Doesn't it seem logical that the pinnacle of motorsport would also be looking at the future?


Nothing wrong with technology but IMO using it in the way they are currently using it is losing the meaning of F1.
The object of F1 in its most basic form is to get that car around the track as quickly as possible with an arse in the chair.

I can understand the weight requirements and maximum engine size but beyond that leave it alone.
Remotely driven cars are in the future also so using your theory why no have the drivers in offices driving them like desk pilots fly drones.
Better yet put a strip near the ideal line and let the car drive itself, just do it as a video game maybe.

You can take this to any extreme you like, at one point it was declared they needed to reduce the cost of F1 and now these are the most expensive drive trains in F1 history.
IMHO it would be better for the sport to get closer to the roots of real motor car racing.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Trav
Why don't they just get a bunch of Toyota Prius type drive trains and let them put bodies on them. Thats about what F1 has sunk to.
From the pinnacle of motor sport to the joke of a senile old codger IMHO.

Why not compare F1 to the amazing Porsche 917, McLaren P1, or the LaFerrari? They're all hybrids. I look forward to the day that the technology trickles down to the everyday car. Fuel saving, and alternative power is the future. Doesn't it seem logical that the pinnacle of motorsport would also be looking at the future?


Actually, it is the Prius technology of kinetic energy recovery that has trickled up to F1, and to the Porsche 918, McLaren P1, and LaFerrari. This is where braking energy is used to drive an electrical generator and charge a battery. This technology was used in the previous F1, but now it has been expanded to double the power boost, and double the amount of time it can be used during a lap.

The new technological wrinkle in F1 is waste heat recovery, where the turbocharger is used to drive an electrical generator that helps propel the car. Since engine power is somewhat regulated by the fuel flow limit, and kinetic energy recovery is completely regulated by explicit power and boost time limits, it is the heat recovery system where constructors could potentially gain a real power advantage. The FIA has put no limit to the amount of energy that can be recovered from the exhaust. (But having a more efficient engine would help too.)

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
My only possible gripe with F1 (other than the sound) is just make sure the drivers have enough fuel to run the race as hard as they can, the technology will inherently save fuel without having to slow anyone down. One way to do it would be to let them use as much fuel over 100Kg as they want but have some deduction from constructor points for each extra liter used. They'll want their drivers to win (because they won't get as many constructor points otherwise) but at the same time it will give them incentive to stay at 100Kg because they'll want the constructor money at the end of the year. This way you won't have drivers giving up positions when they may not have to.


I think that's a good idea, but doesn't allow for races where there are safety car periods (which did happen in Australia). Let the teams have as much fuel as they need to run the race, then give bonus points for each liter of fuel left at the end.

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: gofast182
My only possible gripe with F1 (other than the sound) is just make sure the drivers have enough fuel to run the race as hard as they can, the technology will inherently save fuel without having to slow anyone down. One way to do it would be to let them use as much fuel over 100Kg as they want but have some deduction from constructor points for each extra liter used. They'll want their drivers to win (because they won't get as many constructor points otherwise) but at the same time it will give them incentive to stay at 100Kg because they'll want the constructor money at the end of the year. This way you won't have drivers giving up positions when they may not have to.


I think that's a good idea, but doesn't allow for races where there are safety car periods (which did happen in Australia). Let the teams have as much fuel as they need to run the race, then give bonus points for each liter of fuel left at the end.

Thanks. Although I don't think the safety car periods should matter, it takes no skill or strategy to save fuel during those periods so why reward for it?