Four reasons why Subaru will stay num. one in AWD

[Mykl]

I think for the average, non high performance based AWD system having open diffs at the front and back with an ABS based "electronic diff" system that pumps the brakes to vector torque between the left and right wheels with even a hydraulic center limited slip should be more than sufficient for most sane people for light off road or inclement weather duties.

My GTI has this and it works quite well even if I'm driving it like the sporty car it is. It's no replacement for a true mechanical limited slip, but it does the job if you use it correctly.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: KHP
The most recent article I've read regarding Acura SH-AWD mentioned that it's system can only transfer up to 80-100 FT-LB of torque to the rear wheels.


Yeah, but that's like the full output of that Honda mill, not sure why they would need to be any more beefy than that.

 

[glock19]

Why does everyone always bring up that a FWD car with snow tires is better than AWD with all-seasons? Everyone does realize that you can put snow tires on a Subaru, right?

I'm pretty sure the kind of people that are inclined to put snow tires on a car will put them on any car they own, regardless of drive-train. Put snow tires on both cars and the AWD will smoke the FWD car all day.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
my Acura would embarrass your Subaru.


I own 2005 Legacy GT(LGT) with manual transmission and no electronics AWD(typically 55/45 split) and rear Limited Slip diff and 07 MDX SH AWD. Not convinced the Acura would embarrass the LGT in all situations. The LGT always claws its way out while the Acura occasionally stinks of burning brakes in tough stuff with traction control working overtime.

 

[SatinSilver]

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[KHP]

Originally Posted By: satinsilver
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Looks good to me lol. The car looks perfectly serviceable/drivable. Just put it in reverse and drive off.

In all seriousness how the h*** did he make it to the other side of the guardrail? The passenger side doesn’t look too bad.

 

[Mykl]

^ I'd still take that particular Subaru in that environment over most any other vehicle.

It seems like the only people who claim that Subaru is immune to these types of wrecks are people setting up straw-men.

 

[SatinSilver]

It was a pic I grabbed a few months ago from weather.com(I think?) when a storm was hitting the area. I'm guessing where the guardrail begins it kind of slopes down, she probably just rode up on it that way. Then kept sliding down the rail. Since no tire tracks in the snow next to the car.

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
I think for the average, non high performance based AWD system having open diffs at the front and back with an ABS based "electronic diff" system that pumps the brakes to vector torque between the left and right wheels with even a hydraulic center limited slip should be more than sufficient for most sane people for light off road or inclement weather duties.
...

Agree.

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: gofast182
my Acura would embarrass your Subaru.


I own 2005 Legacy GT(LGT) with manual transmission and no electronics AWD(typically 55/45 split) and rear Limited Slip diff and 07 MDX SH AWD. Not convinced the Acura would embarrass the LGT in all situations. The LGT always claws its way out while the Acura occasionally stinks of burning brakes in tough stuff with traction control working overtime.


In a Legacy GT, quite possible depending on the conditions. I can't say I've experienced any brake smell with my MDX, then again (and I'm not saying this as anything other than an honest observation) I've never been close to getting stuck in it. But as long as we're on roads, esp wet or dry ones, I'd take SH-AWD any day of the week.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Cut the junk. A WRX is pure driving fun. Too bad no hatch in 2015. Come on Subaru, you can do it.


Love the WRX. My choices for my next car are: 1. 3 2. XV 3. WRX.

 

[buster]

http://www.torquenews.com/1084/why-2015-subaru-wrx-sti-uses-very-special-awd-hardware


One of the great things about Subaru's AWD system is that the car is built around the AWD, and layout of the axles and engine. The Symmetrical aspect to the system is unique.

the Forester with X-Mode and CrossTrek will hang with Jeeps and other part time 4wd systems. No locking diffs, but even few 4wd vehicles have those.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: buster
http://www.torquenews.com/1084/why-2015-subaru-wrx-sti-uses-very-special-awd-hardware


One of the great things about Subaru's AWD system is that the car is built around the AWD, and layout of the axles and engine. The Symmetrical aspect to the system is unique.

the Forester with X-Mode and CrossTrek will hang with Jeeps and other part time 4wd systems. No locking diffs, but even few 4wd vehicles have those.


There are a lot of small differences between the STi and the WRX, but as the article states the thing that makes the STi special is the electronic variable transfer clutch.

The things you can do with it feel absolutely unreal, like you're cheating physics. Step on the throttle coming out of a corner and the rear will start to swing out because of the torque bias, then the center starts to lock feeding torque to the front, then the front diff locks and the front tires bite and pull the front of the vehicle where you steer it while the rear of the car waggles around out back.

In most vehicles (to include the WRX) when you're loaded down in a corner you use throttle corrections to adjust the vector of the car. With the STi when it's time to accelerate you put your foot on the floor and point the steering wheel. The only reason to adjust the throttle is because you opened it too early and are running wide through the turn.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: KHP
The most recent article I've read regarding Acura SH-AWD mentioned that it's system can only transfer up to 80-100 FT-LB of torque to the rear wheels.


Yeah, but that's like the full output of that Honda mill, not sure why they would need to be any more beefy than that.

I wonder about the truth of that. Acura MDX has SH AWD which can for cornering reasons push 70% torque to rear wheels and furthermore 100% of that to a single rear wheel. The motor has 275ft lbs torque. So that means it send 192.5ft-lbs of torque(in theory) to a single rear wheel. Unless the system is monitoring RPM and sending less power to rear wheels under full throttle applications not sure.

 

[Mykl]

I wish Honda/Acura would put their SH-AWD system in a performance focused vehicle. Maybe something that doesn't weigh nearly two tons.

 

[KHP]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
I wonder about the truth of that. Acura MDX has SH AWD which can for cornering reasons push 70% torque to rear wheels and furthermore 100% of that to a single rear wheel. The motor has 275ft lbs torque. So that means it send 192.5ft-lbs of torque(in theory) to a single rear wheel. Unless the system is monitoring RPM and sending less power to rear wheels under full throttle applications not sure.


I'm also curious about that. I believe I read that discussion somewhere here in BITOG. The guy I believe is/was a master mechanic for Honda. He seemed to know the pluses and negatives of the SH-AWD system in and out.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Mykl

....or they're sold to people who don't have the room to store an entire extra set of wheels/tires year round and need something that does a passable job in bad weather on all-seasons.

Not all of us have a garage, or even a garage big enough for that. A Subaru on all-seasons does a fine job in snow.


How about this. You take a Subaru on all seasons up here for a snow storm. I'll put my FWD focus on snow tires against it.

I'll outperform you in EVERY situation.


Yeah, and that being true doesn't change the fact that not everyone has room to store an entire extra set of wheels and tires year round. That the best option for those people, or anybody who doesn't want to bother with it, is to just go with a good AWD vehicle equipped with quality all season tires.

Not only that, but I know people who are physically incapable of doing the physical work of actually changing out a set of wheels/tires... like my 84 year old grandfather who lives in an apartment and relies on his Subaru to get food in the winter. Should these people just remain trapped in their home at the first sign of snow and pray that they've stored enough provisions to make it through? ...or should they drive your FWD car with snow tires on it during the summer?

It's great that your garage is apparently equipped to reconfigure your car for every possible weather condition, but not everyone has that luxury.


Yes, while your grandmother did manage to get out of her apartment complex to get snow ... I did watch her slide down Brighton Ave in Syracuse last month.

AWD helps you get moving. I will give you that. But it does not help you stop. There are people that think AWD with bald tires is safer than anything with snow tires.

We don't need to get into that argument. I believe 100% in snow tires and believe that, from a safety stand point, they are much safer than AWD.

 

[gofast182]

I believe he was referring to conditions for testing the system and/or nominal operation, I'm fairly sure of it.

SH-AWD can send 70% of vehicle torque to the rear. The EM clutches can apportion 100% (of the 70%) left to right depending on steering angle and throttle position (or wheel slip). Torque is biased to the rear under acceleration and to the outside rear wheel during cornering to help create a yaw moment. Further, there is a mechanical acceleration unit before the rear diff. that allows the rear wheels to rotate faster than the front wheels by 1.7% of vehicle speed to further enhance the yaw moment and push the vehicle through corners. The front is open and torque can only be managed there via brake application as long as VSA is on. It's a really slick system.

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
I wish Honda/Acura would put their SH-AWD system in a performance focused vehicle. Maybe something that doesn't weigh nearly two tons.

The Sport Hybrid version in the RLX is probably the most advanced application of an AWD system in any vehicle less than $100K. It truly is quite ingenious and the performance of that car belies its size/weight. Look for a similar system (only reversed with the individual electric motors on the front wheels) in the new NSX. Expect 600HP total out of that system.

Look for a lightened version of the mechanical system with improved logic in the new V6 TLX coming out this summer. The main disadvantage of the current system is it's quite heavy. For comparison sake, the Subaru systems, like in the WRX and STi are much better for weight.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Yes, while your grandmother did manage to get out of her apartment complex to get snow ... I did watch her slide down Brighton Ave in Syracuse last month.

AWD helps you get moving. I will give you that. But it does not help you stop. There are people that think AWD with bald tires is safer than anything with snow tires.

We don't need to get into that argument. I believe 100% in snow tires and believe that, from a safety stand point, they are much safer than AWD.


First of all, you got the gender wrong (leading me to believe you're trolling and not reading), second my grandfather doesn't live in Syracuse so you got that wrong too.

Again, what does any of this have to do with the fact that not everyone has the space to store, or ability to change an entire set of tires?

You can believe in the safety of snow tires as hard as you want, but that doesn't change the fundamental fact that not everyone can have them equipped the very second the first snowflake touches the ground.

Are you reading anything I'm saying? You're responding to things that haven't been said.